Advise for a first time Welder

[rankrank1]

Well if it were me, I would be looking at the Hobart 210MVP. Basically a dual voltage Mig that would perform like the Hobart 140 on 115 volt and like the Hobart 190 (plus a tad extra) when on 230 volt.

Best of both worlds in a reliable affordable unit. Ultra portable with 115 volt capability and serious power in 230 volt when needed too. It is the more affordable version of the Miller 211. I would not pay full retail price, but if you wait for a coupon deal....or blowout sale then quite the bargain.

Average Homeowner not likely to outgrow it or break it in their lifetime either. Spool gun compatible if you ever want to do aluminum later too.

 

[IslandTractor]

I do not know how big of material I will ultimately be working on but to start light stuff mostly. I have some Oliver flat top fenders that I cut old steel out of and will be wanting to weld new still back in. Ground off all the material around the parts to weld and they are all nice and shiney but I hear what you are saying about the repairs. I think I will be doing 80% new stuff and 20% old repair. MIg still the safest bet you think?

As you will primarily be welding sheet metal, a Hobart 125v MIG welder would certainly work for you and many welders would consider MIG to be the preferred type of machine for that. If your work is done outside you would want to use flux core wire but any MIG machine can run that.

No doubt there are benefits to the 220v MIG machines like ShieldArc mentions but those advantages are only apparent when working on 1/4" steel or greater. No advantage for sheet metal.

Barely used 125v MIG machines from Miller, Hobart, Lincoln, Thermal Arc are often found on Craig's List as hobby welders buy them new, don't use them much and then sell them either to upgrade or after losing interest. If you really expect to focus on sheet metal, that's all you need. Stay away from no name welders as you'll find it hard to get parts and service. Any local welding store or Internet shop like Cyberweld.com has supplies and consumables for the major brands.

 

[leveled]

thats funny you say that about craigslist and the thermal arc although i go on there religiously and have never have seen one listed. Although your right about cyberweld being that they carry two major brands one miller and the other thermal arc!

 

[IslandTractor]

thats funny you say that about craigslist and the thermal arc although i go on there religiously and have never have seen one listed. Although your right about cyberweld being that they carry two major brands one miller and the other thermal arc!

Thermal Arc is the smaller of the major US sold brands so I guess it makes sense that there would be more Lincoln, Miller and Hobart equipment on CL. I mentioned Thermal Arc because it is clearly not an "off brand" and because parts and supplies are readily available.

I should have pointed out that Cyberweld doesn't stock Lincoln but there are many other websites (and virtually all local welding shops) that do.

For what it's worth, I think that if someone is just starting out welding and they know they will be doing mostly sheet metal that these CL used welders from the big names are a great bang for the buck. There are many many guys who make impulse buys at Home Depot or Lowes or even at a welding shop for a starter package of MIG equipment and then never actually do any significant amount of welding before losing interest and eventually selling the equipment. I bet most of the 120volt MIG packages have never had a liner changed or perhaps used more than a 2lb roll or two of wire before being retired to the basement or garage and sold a few years later. That said, ShieldArc and others are certainly correct that moving up to a dual voltage or 220V machine absolutely increases flexibility for welding bigger stock but again, if sheet metal is your primary work, there is little if any benefit to the power that comes with 220v.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I do not know how big of material I will ultimately be working on but to start light stuff mostly. I have some Oliver flat top fenders that I cut old steel out of and will be wanting to weld new still back in. Ground off all the material around the parts to weld and they are all nice and shiney but I hear what you are saying about the repairs. I think I will be doing 80% new stuff and 20% old repair. MIg still the safest bet you think?

You have the right idea about cleaning up the stock before welding on it. This holds true for stick rod also. Folks spout off that you can weld rusty, dirty steel with stick but not MIG. Well that may be partially true, you can weld dirty steel with stick and MAYBE if wont fall apart, but stick welds suffer from unclean welding just as MIG welding does. Just because you might make it glob on and hold two pieces together doesn't make it right to do regardless of the process used. Cleaning the parts first will make welding them 1000 times easier!!!
Saying that, MIG might be your easiest process to lay down a bead with but there are other factors to make it right. As ShieldArc says, cold lap is notorious with MIG welds and come mostly from not having the machine set hot enough (or too small of a machine). Another factor is not manipulating the gun to tie the edges in properly when running a bit cold on thin materials.
There is a bit more to MIG than just pulling the trigger on the gun, even if the machine is set properly but a beginner can put some nice looking beads on metal with them. MIG is likely the most expensive process for the home owner to run, the machines are expensive and the CO2/Argon mixed gas is expensive. FCAW (fluxcore) is a bit cheaper as you can run it without gas although it does much better with gas shielding. I prefer stick rod for my home repairs as it is the most versatile of all processes, electrodes are fairly cheap, welding machines are much cheaper than a large capacity MIG.
I would recommend you getting a 250 amp (min) AC/DC stick rod machine for your uses. It takes some acquired skill to learn but it isn't rocket science to learn to stick rod and with minimal electrode stock, one can weld just about any material found on a farm. E6010 or 6011, in 3/32 and 1/8" sizes will weld about anything that you have. I also stock 3/32 and 1/8" E 7018 electrodes as they are a bit more ductile and a lot stronger than the 60XX rods but are a bit harder to start and weld with.
With the AC/DC machine, you can later add a TIG torch and argon regulators for a couple hundred bucks for that delicate work that stick just cant do easily. TIG welding requires 100% Argon shielding and tungsten electrodes, neither of which are cheap, but the tungsten lasts a long time. The Argon gas will last a bit longer than the mixed gas would for MIG as the nozzles are much small so the flow rate isn't needed to be as high.
Best advice is to find a local community college that has a welding course and get some preliminary instruction. It is the cheapest way to learn to weld as they have all the different machines, furnish all the supplies other than welding hoods and gloves and usually have a knowledgeable instructor to teach you the basics of welding and metallurgy. Knowledge of Metallurgy is a very necessary in welding as you need to know the properties of different metals, how they behave to heating, cutting and welding. You wont learn this from just burning rods in your shop.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

It doesn't take 1/4" to see the advantages of a 240V welder. The advantages start showing up over 1/8". You may feel that you are getting 1/4" welded, but you will suffer badly from cold lap and incomplete fusion. The old rule of 1 amp per thousandth applies here. While you may not need all of that to get a good weld, you better have a little more than you show to make sure. Keep in mind that a 125 amp machine is really about an 80 or 90 amp welder and that's it. The top end on the transformer migs is theoretical more than reality. The duty cycle (usually only 10-20%) is often rated at 80-90 amps...which tells you this unit has serious limitations of ever getting close enough to make a competent weld on anything over 1/8". Just watch that aspect. I am not saying a 125 amp transformer machine can't do the job. I am just saying it's an issue beyond heavy sheet metal gauges. Good for putting an exhaust system in a car, welding 1/8" angle...going full tilt on an art project etc.

 

[IslandTractor]

It doesn't take 1/4" to see the advantages of a 240V welder. The advantages start showing up over 1/8". You may feel that you are getting 1/4" welded, but you will suffer badly from cold lap and incomplete fusion. The old rule of 1 amp per thousandth applies here. While you may not need all of that to get a good weld, you better have a little more than you show to make sure. Keep in mind that a 125 amp machine is really about an 80 or 90 amp welder and that's it. The top end on the transformer migs is theoretical more than reality. The duty cycle (usually only 10-20%) is often rated at 80-90 amps...which tells you this unit has serious limitations of ever getting close enough to make a competent weld on anything over 1/8". Just watch that aspect. I am not saying a 125 amp transformer machine can't do the job. I am just saying it's an issue beyond heavy sheet metal gauges. Good for putting an exhaust system in a car, welding 1/8" angle...going full tilt on an art project etc.

I'm sure you are correct that benefits might start below 1/4" but as 1/8" is still essentially sheet metal, anyone who really is doing sheet metal welding wouldn't notice any benefit of the 220V machines. Of course the flexibility of doing more than sheet metal is a big consideration for many people but for those just doing auto body restorations, the 120v machines seem to be quite popular.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

The OP is working on Oliver fenders to begin with...that's all and says "more" is possible in the future. The fact he has a tractor tells me he is likely to jump on a few equipment repairs. How much farm equipment have you seen made out of nothing but sheet metal? Old Oliver fenders are thicker than modern fenders...much thicker. These are flat top, which means it was likely for a larger unit, something like a 1650 or similar series...which means there are some seriously heavy parts. What it seems he has done is cut it down to the thicker sections of skeleton "ribbing" or removed the outer or inner skin someway. Also depending upon what he has to do, the fenders are usually bolted to the mounting plate which bolts on to the axle. This can be up to 1/2" thick...If the brackets need work or the holes are wallowed out from a loose fender, a larger unit will quickly be appreciated.

 

[aczlan]

Strictly non-pro here. If I have anything that actually 'counts', I have a pro handle it for me.
That being said, The hardest thing it seems for most beginners I've run into is they don't see or understand or how to look for and watch and control the pool of molten metal that's being pushed or maybe rather blended together. That being with torches, mig or stick.
If only that were just beginners that'd be okay I guess but I run into the same thing from people that have doing it forever.
For beginners I always suggest starting with a set of gas torches. Learn how to control that welding process and it's limitations. Then arc welding becomes much easier in terms of whats happening as well as gauging the worth of the finished product.
Shrug, or maybe that's just because that's the way I started. lol

I started with brazing together AC linesets with a Oxy/Acetylene torch set and when I started working with a MIG I found that I had it right when it looked like a good braze puddle. I'm not overly good at getting a good puddle, but I know what it looks like when I do get one...

Aaron Z

 

[Sodo]

I used a Hobart Handler 120 for several years, then split the shop up and lost the welder so I bought a Miller 135 and used it for 7 years. These are both great 120v machines. Often people say the little 120v machines don't weld thicker than 1/8" - that's absolute BS. Very experienced welders rarely have experience with a 120v welder and why would they bother? They can't make a living limited to 120v so they don't really care, but are always ready to say the machine is no good. That's wrong. You as more of a hobby welder can make it work great without being goaded into overbuying.

I'd say 1/4" is a turning point for the Miller 135 but I've welded 3/8" where it obviously is melting into the base metal, it's not cold lapping, and the weld is strong. But I've been doing it for years. With thicker metal it depends a lot on the shape and the overall mass of what you're welding and how many directions the heat can get sucked away. And you have the option of pre-heating thick metal if you must weld it with your 120v. Once you get to 1/4" thick you have to know more what you're doing (if using 120v).

As you start welding you will likely open other doors to fabrication, and then you may want something bigger; considering you are in a 'tractor' environment. The Miller, Lincoln, Hobarts are all very reliable and you can replace every wear part on them, so don't worry about being able to make it run as new.

I just bought a MultiMatic200 which welds on 120v/240v, and I really like the machine for many reasons. On Ebay today is a used Miller140 at $300, and if that is the original tips shown, it's practically unused (but tips are replaced often). Prepare to spend another $300 or so for the gas cylinder and $100-$200 for an auto-darkening helmet. If that machine goes for about $300 that's a great deal.

You won't be sorry buying a Miller 180 or 211 though, it's just a few hundred $$$ more than the 140 but be careful going beyond that for your first welder or you may be the one giving the good deals on Craigslist. But if you have the money I advise to get a machine that works on 120v for versatility, and 240v in case you have to weld 3/8" or 1/2" (depending on the shape of the work).

If you are always welding outside in the wind you will have to use a stick welder. If you are welding inside (no wind) then you will be much happier and find a wire-feed (mig) much easier to learn. Flux cored wire will cost less to get started but flux cored is much more difficult to make nice welds. The setup to gas costs a few hundred$.