Advise for a first time Welder

[flusher]

Start with an AC/DC stick welder like my Hobart Stickmate LX AC/DC unit (about $450 at Tractor Supply). A stick welder is the true all purpose welder. Works anywhere (indoors, outdoors in the wind, underwater, in outer space) in clean, not too clean and downright filty conditions. No moving parts, no gas bottles. Learn to stick weld and then transition to MIG and TIG after you develop the skills needed to maintain and control the arc and the weld puddle.

Or if you have the bucks, get an all in one welder (stick, MIG, TIG) like the ones Everlast sells ($1200 or so).

Good luck.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

The buzzboxes are fine, as a beginner machine but the cheaper AC DC ones like the Stickmate, Tombstone, and Thunderbolt don't put out the power of the little PowerARC 140sth from Everlast on DC. If you want to weld and get good at it, DC is the way to go. If you want plenty of power, the PowerArc 200ST. This unit will put out plenty of amps for most welds.

Of course the AC DC buzzboxes will typically put out up to 225 amps AC, but when you experience the difference of a really good DC machine, all that AC power will not be as charming.

 

[CNC Dan]

What Mark said. The little PA140 is a good starter welder. And the PA200ST is also dual voltage.

 

[muddstopper]

As a hobbiest, I think "wants" trump "needs" most times when buying a new welder. I bought a ac/dc tombstone about 30 years ago. No telling how many rods that machine has burnt. A few years ago, I decided i wanted a mig so bought a new Miller 175. Ran a ton of wire thru it. About 2 years ago, I decided I wanted a tig capable machine, I ran across a good almost new 250/250 Idealarc stick tig complete withfoot pedal and a full bottle of argon. So I bought it. Soon I then had a shop full of welding machines. Guess which machine i still used most. Thats right, the old tombstone. I never even hooked the Idealarc up for stick welding until last week, I had to figure out how to switch it over from tig to stick to even run a bead. (Must turn off tig foot pedal control to do stick welding). You know the only reason I used the ldealarc for this project was because I traded my old tombstone for a SA200 that I am currently restoring. My point, for 30 years i got by just fine with the old tombstone, its what I "needed", everything else is just what I "wanted". Thats not to say I dont take advantage of having multiple welding machines, The mig is great on that thin stuff and tig I am still trying to get a handle on, But I got by for over 30 years with the old tombstone and the other machines are just the jelly for my toast.

I will echo the comments about CL welders. I bought a slightly used lincoln pro175 a couple of weeks ago for $150. Had a almost new 10lb roll of fluxcore wire on it. I bought it sight unseen and untested, and after I had paid for it, the seller admitted it didnt weld all that good. I opened the cover and noticed they had the polarity reversed for flux core wire. Got the machine home, changed out the polarity and machine welds like new. New mig machines normally shipped wired for gas and solid wire, if your going to use flux core, you need to swap the lead wires. Funny thing is, there is a chart right inside the cover that explains this fact, but nobody ever seems to read the instructions. No telling how many hobbest buy these welders, have problems with them simply because they changed welding wire and didnt change the leads, then sell the welders complaining all the time that the welder isnt any good.

 

[jerry shannon]

Thermal Arc is the smaller of the major US sold brands so I guess it makes sense that there would be more Lincoln, Miller and Hobart equipment on CL. I mentioned Thermal Arc because it is clearly not an "off brand" and because parts and supplies are readily available.

I should have pointed out that Cyberweld doesn't stock Lincoln but there are many other websites (and virtually all local welding shops) that do.

For what it's worth, I think that if someone is just starting out welding and they know they will be doing mostly sheet metal that these CL used welders from the big names are a great bang for the buck. There are many many guys who make impulse buys at Home Depot or Lowes or even at a welding shop for a starter package of MIG equipment and then never actually do any significant amount of welding before losing interest and eventually selling the equipment. I bet most of the 120volt MIG packages have never had a liner changed or perhaps used more than a 2lb roll or two of wire before being retired to the basement or garage and sold a few years later. That said, ShieldArc and others are certainly correct that moving up to a dual voltage or 220V machine absolutely increases flexibility for welding bigger stock but again, if sheet metal is your primary work, there is little if any benefit to the power that comes with 220v.

Thank you. My pole barn has it own power pole and transformer. Set up as industrial and is set up with 220, and 440. Former owner had a commerical water jet and plasma cutting operation in it. Power for me is not any limiting factor. Just looking for a good all around unit for sheet metal, fabrication some metal frame work, repairs to tractors and fencing. Just all around stuff. Was thinking after seeing all the good ideas here to look at a good MIg unit say around 190 and then a good used stick welder for bigger stuff. Make sense?

 

[jerry shannon]

Start with an AC/DC stick welder like my Hobart Stickmate LX AC/DC unit (about $450 at Tractor Supply). A stick welder is the true all purpose welder. Works anywhere (indoors, outdoors in the wind, underwater, in outer space) in clean, not too clean and downright filty conditions. No moving parts, no gas bottles. Learn to stick weld and then transition to MIG and TIG after you develop the skills needed to maintain and control the arc and the weld puddle.


Or if you have the bucks, get an all in one welder (stick, MIG, TIG) like the ones Everlast sells ($1200 or so).

Good luck.

Thanks Flusher. I like the idea of starting with a stick welder. Was thinking of both a good all around new Mig and a good used stick welder. Learn on the stick and be ready to move over to the mig.

 

[aczlan]

Thank you. My pole barn has it own power pole and transformer. Set up as industrial and is set up with 220, and 440. Former owner had a commerical water jet and plasma cutting operation in it. Power for me is not any limiting factor. Just looking for a good all around unit for sheet metal, fabrication some metal frame work, repairs to tractors and fencing. Just all around stuff. Was thinking after seeing all the good ideas here to look at a good MIg unit say around 190 and then a good used stick welder for bigger stuff. Make sense?

If you have 3 phase available, I might look into a 3 phase welder. I frequently see large 3 phase machines for the same price as a small 220v machine.

Aaron Z

 

[jerry shannon]

As a hobbiest, I think "wants" trump "needs" most times when buying a new welder. I bought a ac/dc tombstone about 30 years ago. No telling how many rods that machine has burnt. A few years ago, I decided i wanted a mig so bought a new Miller 175. Ran a ton of wire thru it. About 2 years ago, I decided I wanted a tig capable machine, I ran across a good almost new 250/250 Idealarc stick tig complete withfoot pedal and a full bottle of argon. So I bought it. Soon I then had a shop full of welding machines. Guess which machine i still used most. Thats right, the old tombstone. I never even hooked the Idealarc up for stick welding until last week, I had to figure out how to switch it over from tig to stick to even run a bead. (Must turn off tig foot pedal control to do stick welding). You know the only reason I used the ldealarc for this project was because I traded my old tombstone for a SA200 that I am currently restoring. My point, for 30 years i got by just fine with the old tombstone, its what I "needed", everything else is just what I "wanted". Thats not to say I dont take advantage of having multiple welding machines, The mig is great on that thin stuff and tig I am still trying to get a handle on, But I got by for over 30 years with the old tombstone and the other machines are just the jelly for my toast.

I will echo the comments about CL welders. I bought a slightly used lincoln pro175 a couple of weeks ago for $150. Had a almost new 10lb roll of fluxcore wire on it. I bought it sight unseen and untested, and after I had paid for it, the seller admitted it didnt weld all that good. I opened the cover and noticed they had the polarity reversed for flux core wire. Got the machine home, changed out the polarity and machine welds like new. New mig machines normally shipped wired for gas and solid wire, if your going to use flux core, you need to swap the lead wires. Funny thing is, there is a chart right inside the cover that explains this fact, but nobody ever seems to read the instructions. No telling how many hobbest buy these welders, have problems with them simply because they changed welding wire and didnt change the leads, then sell the welders complaining all the time that the welder isnt any good.

Great advise. Thank you. I plan on taking some night classes at the Community College to understand the basics before I start. I will take in my Tractor Fenders that I have ready to weld on new sheet metal and that will be my class project. That way I have a person on site that knows what they are doing helping me do it myself.

 

[jerry shannon]

You have the right idea about cleaning up the stock before welding on it. This holds true for stick rod also. Folks spout off that you can weld rusty, dirty steel with stick but not MIG. Well that may be partially true, you can weld dirty steel with stick and MAYBE if wont fall apart, but stick welds suffer from unclean welding just as MIG welding does. Just because you might make it glob on and hold two pieces together doesn't make it right to do regardless of the process used. Cleaning the parts first will make welding them 1000 times easier!!!
Saying that, MIG might be your easiest process to lay down a bead with but there are other factors to make it right. As ShieldArc says, cold lap is notorious with MIG welds and come mostly from not having the machine set hot enough (or too small of a machine). Another factor is not manipulating the gun to tie the edges in properly when running a bit cold on thin materials.
There is a bit more to MIG than just pulling the trigger on the gun, even if the machine is set properly but a beginner can put some nice looking beads on metal with them. MIG is likely the most expensive process for the home owner to run, the machines are expensive and the CO2/Argon mixed gas is expensive. FCAW (fluxcore) is a bit cheaper as you can run it without gas although it does much better with gas shielding. I prefer stick rod for my home repairs as it is the most versatile of all processes, electrodes are fairly cheap, welding machines are much cheaper than a large capacity MIG.
I would recommend you getting a 250 amp (min) AC/DC stick rod machine for your uses. It takes some acquired skill to learn but it isn't rocket science to learn to stick rod and with minimal electrode stock, one can weld just about any material found on a farm. E6010 or 6011, in 3/32 and 1/8" sizes will weld about anything that you have. I also stock 3/32 and 1/8" E 7018 electrodes as they are a bit more ductile and a lot stronger than the 60XX rods but are a bit harder to start and weld with.
With the AC/DC machine, you can later add a TIG torch and argon regulators for a couple hundred bucks for that delicate work that stick just cant do easily. TIG welding requires 100% Argon shielding and tungsten electrodes, neither of which are cheap, but the tungsten lasts a long time. The Argon gas will last a bit longer than the mixed gas would for MIG as the nozzles are much small so the flow rate isn't needed to be as high.
Best advice is to find a local community college that has a welding course and get some preliminary instruction. It is the cheapest way to learn to weld as they have all the different machines, furnish all the supplies other than welding hoods and gloves and usually have a knowledgeable instructor to teach you the basics of welding and metallurgy. Knowledge of Metallurgy is a very necessary in welding as you need to know the properties of different metals, how they behave to heating, cutting and welding. You wont learn this from just burning rods in your shop.

Great Advise and thank you. I am going to be taking some classes on welding at our local community college.

 

[jerry shannon]

The OP is working on Oliver fenders to begin with...that's all and says "more" is possible in the future. The fact he has a tractor tells me he is likely to jump on a few equipment repairs. How much farm equipment have you seen made out of nothing but sheet metal? Old Oliver fenders are thicker than modern fenders...much thicker. These are flat top, which means it was likely for a larger unit, something like a 1650 or similar series...which means there are some seriously heavy parts. What it seems he has done is cut it down to the thicker sections of skeleton "ribbing" or removed the outer or inner skin someway. Also depending upon what he has to do, the fenders are usually bolted to the mounting plate which bolts on to the axle. This can be up to 1/2" thick...If the brackets need work or the holes are wallowed out from a loose fender, a larger unit will quickly be appreciated.

You are dead on. My Oliver is an 1855. The flat top fenders were rusted in the middle and some of the support bracing was rusted through due to mud and dirt collecting in the channels for the last 30 years. I cut the sheet metal out with a cut off wheel on my angle grinder. Cut out all rotted steel and support brackets. The sheet metal is close to 1/8". When I cut out the sheet metal, I also cut it away from the backside of the support beams so I have good welding surface to attach to. On the support beams that I cut out, I will weld on 1x1 square ( the same size as the original bracket material) pieces and lap them over the existing brackets and weld them on first. This will give a super strong attach point. I can then lay in the cut to fit sheet metal and surface weld on the outside and on the inside I can weld the backside of the sheet metal to the new support brackets. Should be stronger than the original.
These fenders bolt to a solid steel support bracket through holes in the square support brackets and through the sheet metal. In my mind it should be "over engineered".