Aerial electric to barn

[BeezFun]

I'm putting up new barn this summer, plan to run electric aerial line. I'd like to understand what a reasonable solution is before I get quotes, so I'll know if they're blowing smoke up my tailpipe. I'll probably put a 60A subpanel in barn, all I need is lights and a tank heater. I see quadplex aerial cable as the recurring solution to this kind of application. The steel messenger gets anchored at each end to carry weight of cable, and acts as uninsulated ground. Seems like they're all aluminum, I assume to reduce weight. There must be some kind of special crimper and fitting to connect the aluminum cable to the copper in the building.

One question is whether I can use a tree as an intermediate post to make the run. It's about 150' from house to barn, house is a ranch so I either need to put up a mast or have an intermediate support to keep the height up. If the tree falls down I'll lose the line, but I'd lose it anyway because the tree's going to fall across the line whether it's connected or not. Any other suggestions or advice would be useful.

 

[Ted Summey]

Is there an advantage of an aerial line versus a buried line? I would recommend a buried line - less lightning, ice/snow and wind damage.

A vibratory subsoiler can put the line in easily without too much lawn damage unless there are too many obstacles.

 

[BeezFun]

Is there an advantage of an aerial line versus a buried line? I would recommend a buried line - less lightning, ice/snow and wind damage.

A vibratory subsoiler can put the line in easily without too much lawn damage unless there are too many obstacles.

50 year old gravel road that was put in with boulders has to be crossed, we live on a morraine so digging requires dynamite. We also have 50 year old mature trees in the path so don't want to disturb roots. I hear you on the ice/wind problem, on the other hand our power is so unreliable that it goes off whenever there's wind or ice anyway, so doesn't matter if my line fails.

 

[Depmandog]

Around here, the utilities hire tree trimming companies to remove limbs / tree tops that would / could bring the lines down. So if you used a tree as a line post......just a matter of time before your tree gets butchered / topped.

And yes, even on private property. They clear the lines all the way to the meter. We see them in our area about every other year.

 

[k0ua]

Is there an advantage of an aerial line versus a buried line? I would recommend a buried line - less lightning, ice/snow and wind damage.

A vibratory subsoiler can put the line in easily without too much lawn damage unless there are too many obstacles.

I agree with everything you said except the "less lightning"... Lightning is as much a ground phenomenon as it is an air phenomenon. When you put a conductor in the ground, currents flowing in the earth to equalize currents flowing in the air come from all directions. These earth currents, will cause a voltage rise in any conductor buried in the earth. Be sure to put in good surge protection. Nothing wrong with buried cable, as long as precautions are taken.

James K0UA

 

[dave1949]

I think this would be considered "your" line and the meter is at the house?

Aluminum would be normal here from the transformer to the meter socket, and from the meter socket to the service panel/main disconnect. I think it would be the thing to use for your extension too.

I wouldn't use a tree, I'm not sure that would pass various reviews such as insurance & electric code.

I would put in a pole ~midway, or hire it done by someone more likely, as serious digging and blasting may be involved. If you own the pole here, you can put a switch-controlled yard light on it, which could be handy.

You may need a mast and/or weather head at each end, plus something solid enough to screw the carrying cable anchor to, to do it correctly is my assumption. The minimum clearance to ground should be 14'. If you would ever run a communications line to the barn, I would allow for that possibility while you are at it.

I would run cable for a 100 amp service at a minimum. Considering all the variables, and what I know I don't know :laughing:, I would hire an electrician.

 

[Timm250]

Around here, the utilities hire tree trimming companies to remove limbs / tree tops that would / could bring the lines down. So if you used a tree as a line post......just a matter of time before your tree gets butchered / topped.

And yes, even on private property. They clear the lines all the way to the meter. We see them in our area about every other year.

Our electric company won't trim or clear anything from the service line to the house. They told me that if I didn't keep it clean and something falls on the line they will charge me to put it back up. When they ran the service line to my house they cut a v out in the tree top & put the line through it.

They will only clean out 20 ft from the line. There is one spot that wasn't on my property & they wouldn't clear it and the property owner would let me clear it off.

 

[Illini22]

You only need triplex, 3 number 4's or something similar. The bare wire is your neutral. You can buy some querny clamps made for al. to copper. Put copper underneath the al. At the connection.

 

[Ted Summey]

I don't disagree with lightning having a ground component, however, I have seen the stepped leader from the ground begin on both power company lines and on homeowner installed aerial lines. Typically, when the ground component of lightning begins on a homeowner line there is all kinds of havoc without quality lighning arrestors in place and even then an aerial cable will often come down. The buried cable minimizes the likelihood of a direct strike but should not be considered a preventative for lightning arrestors/surge supression.

To the OP, since the rocky terrain prevents in ground installation, I agree with avoiding using a tree for your cable and the likelihood for needing a mast on your house for ground clearance.

 

[BeezFun]

I think this would be considered "your" line and the meter is at the house?

correct, the barn line will be fed from a new breaker in the service panel in my house.

Aluminum would be normal here from the transformer to the meter socket, and from the meter socket to the service panel/main disconnect. I think it would be the thing to use for your extension too.

yes, it appears to be the only thing that's available

I wouldn't use a tree, I'm not sure that would pass various reviews such as insurance & electric code.
I would put in a pole ~midway, or hire it done by someone more likely, as serious digging and blasting may be involved. If you own the pole here, you can put a switch-controlled yard light on it, which could be handy.

Wife will not be happy about a pole, she'll probably have me spray christmas tree flocking on it to make it look like a tree. I like idea of yard light at barn end, we already have bright light at house.

You may need a mast and/or weather head at each end, plus something solid enough to screw the carrying cable anchor to, to do it correctly is my assumption. The minimum clearance to ground should be 14'.

I assumed I'd need a weather head at each end, anchoring it is no problem. I found posts and pieces of code that establish minimum ground clearance as 10' where it leaves the building and above walkways. I'll check that out some more.

If you would ever run a communications line to the barn, I would allow for that possibility while you are at it.

I wonder if I can add a cat 5 line on that aerial run, seems like a noisy location. That would be nice to have a web cam out there, it's a little far for wireless.

I would run cable for a 100 amp service at a minimum. Considering all the variables, and what I know I don't know :laughing:, I would hire an electrician.

Yes I plan to have an electrician do the work, but my experience is I get five different proposals from five different guys, so I'd like to understand what they'll be talking about.

 

[BeezFun]

You only need triplex, 3 number 4's or something similar. The bare wire is your neutral. You can buy some querny clamps made for al. to copper. Put copper underneath the al. At the connection.

I understand it to be a requirement now to use quadplex, and the bare wire is the earth ground, but I assume an electrician will know the requirement for our area. Never heard of a querny clamp, and neither did google. Does it have another name?

 

[hr3]

Check out this link on using vegetation to support over head wires,,, Not allowed.. and yes quad plex only... Ooo and as for your connections from copper to the alum. you can use split bolts made for both or Burndy makes a BIT connector that I like a lot better...

Live Vegetation NEC 225.26

http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/en...ssageType=catProductDetail&showAddButton=true

 

[BeezFun]

Check out this link on using vegetation to support over head wires,,, Not allowed..

Well that's pretty clear. The only possibility I can see is attaching a post to the trunk of the tree instead of burying it, then attach wire to post.

Ooo and as for your connections from copper to the alum. you can use split bolts made for both or Burndy makes a BIT connector that I like a lot better...

looks cleaner than split bolt

 

[Fred Barbour]

I'm putting up new barn this summer, plan to run electric aerial line. I'd like to understand what a reasonable solution is before I get quotes, so I'll know if they're blowing smoke up my tailpipe. I'll probably put a 60A subpanel in barn, all I need is lights and a tank heater. I see quadplex aerial cable as the recurring solution to this kind of application. The steel messenger gets anchored at each end to carry weight of cable, and acts as uninsulated ground. Seems like they're all aluminum, I assume to reduce weight. There must be some kind of special crimper and fitting to connect the aluminum cable to the copper in the building.

One question is whether I can use a tree as an intermediate post to make the run. It's about 150' from house to barn, house is a ranch so I either need to put up a mast or have an intermediate support to keep the height up. If the tree falls down I'll lose the line, but I'd lose it anyway because the tree's going to fall across the line whether it's connected or not. Any other suggestions or advice would be useful.

I doubt if your electrical code would allow the line attached to a tree. The home I bought had a line to the barn attached to a bull pine half way to the barn. It died about 4 years ago and to solve my problem, I cut the tree above the line and mounted a bird house. A fashion statement and to keep water of the top of the tree in the hope it will last longer.

Fred

 

[Clint S]

Not saying it is correct or it will pass code but we have used trees run overhead wire close to 100 yards and most of it is close to 20 years old. Dad worked for the power company for 40 years, we spliced together scraps of wire to make the runs. Never had an issue. Again, probably will not meet code and do not know about insurance but it has worked for us

 

[aczlan]

Wife will not be happy about a pole, she'll probably have me spray christmas tree flocking on it to make it look like a tree. I like idea of yard light at barn end, we already have bright light at house.

Might also be able to put one on the pole to dress it up a little...

Aaron Z

 

[BeezFun]

View attachment 318511View attachment 318510

I doubt if your electrical code would allow the line attached to a tree. The home I bought had a line to the barn attached to a bull pine half way to the barn. It died about 4 years ago and to solve my problem, I cut the tree above the line and mounted a bird house. A fashion statement and to keep water of the top of the tree in the hope it will last longer.

Fred

I have almost identical situation, it's a tall pine about halfway between the two buildings.

 

[BeezFun]

Not saying it is correct or it will pass code but we have used trees run overhead wire close to 100 yards and most of it is close to 20 years old. Dad worked for the power company for 40 years, we spliced together scraps of wire to make the runs. Never had an issue. Again, probably will not meet code and do not know about insurance but it has worked for us

Trees last longer than posts, you'd think the tree would be the better choice.

 

[Soapandbacon]

I think this would be considered "your" line and the meter is at the house?

Aluminum would be normal here from the transformer to the meter socket, and from the meter socket to the service panel/main disconnect. I think it would be the thing to use for your extension too.

I wouldn't use a tree, I'm not sure that would pass various reviews such as insurance & electric code.

I would put in a pole ~midway, or hire it done by someone more likely, as serious digging and blasting may be involved. If you own the pole here, you can put a switch-controlled yard light on it, which could be handy.

You may need a mast and/or weather head at each end, plus something solid enough to screw the carrying cable anchor to, to do it correctly is my assumption. The minimum clearance to ground should be 14'. If you would ever run a communications line to the barn, I would allow for that possibility while you are at it.

I would run cable for a 100 amp service at a minimum. Considering all the variables, and what I know I don't know :laughing:, I would hire an electrician.

Agreed 100%

 

[dave1949]

I suggested 14' minimum clearance because that is the standard used here by the utility for lines on a lot. It makes sense. You don't have to worry about tall vehicles like a feed truck, motor homes, a large load of hay, or whatever. It just becomes a non-issue.

Clematis and trumpet vines are good power pole climbers and have nice flowers. The utility doesn't like anything attached to their poles, but this one will be yours, so anything sensible is okay I believe.

I would think a cctv line or the like would be very useful if you have animals to monitor. It might be best to start a separate thread about that. I know there are several TBN members that are very knowledgeable in that area that would help set you up with the right stuff.

The utility trims any limbs within 8 feet of the feeder lines on my property. You may be able to get quite close to the tree and be okay. If you want to keep the tree, and if you have a choice, run the line on the side of tree opposite the direction it would likely fall if cut or blown down.

If the intervening tree is going to be a problem, take it down before the line is in your way, or like the other poster, use for a bird house mount. Your wife sounds like mine, every tree cutting is a discussion. :laughing: Once the line is in place and the tree has to come down, now you may have a bigger, more expensive problem.