Ahp Tig welder 200x

[Mark @ Everlast]

Mark
Thanks for the reply.

The Everlast is twice the price! I understand the differences but I could spend twice that of your machine for a dynasty and have that much more machine...but that's not what I'm after. Price point is more important at this time. Maybe the 200dv's price needs to come down to be more competitive?

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My math doesn't add up to yours. Twice the price of the new 2015 alpha 200x is 1600. The more heavily featured 200DV lists for 1350.00 before discounts. That's a big difference to some people. For twice the price of the 200 DV you won't get close to a Dynasty 200 dx and you won't have much more of a machine, performance wise. You might have more of a name. You'll spend about 4 grand to get into one that is new with accessories. Again, to me, the math doesn't add up. Even if you bought the 210ext, which would compare directly to the Dynasty, but still offer better performance, output and duty cycle the math doesn't begin to come close. Many of my customers who have used Dynasty's (not just me) say that the arc is better on our product from that standpoint on our units.

The Dynasty can barely squeak out 200 amps at a scant 20% duty cycle on 220V 1 phase. The warranty on the 200dx is longer. The arc performance on the PT 200DV is better in my opinion and on top of that what goes into the machine is better. It has a far better foot pedal and better torches, and a better regulator that comes with it as part of the package too...and replacements are easily sourced from suppliers other than us. On the 200X not as easy or impossible.

The Everlast 200DX has had a stable 6 year track record and the 200X has seen barely 2 years on the market (started selling in 2013 late). AHP product line only has a small 140 MIG in it. It's made to compete with Eastwood and the like. The PowerTIG 200DX is a much more refined machine internally in my opinion, and is also viewed and designed to be a commercial class machine. Knowing what I know about the Ahp product line, the 200DX is priced just right as we struggle to keep up with demand on it as it is. Supply and demand dictate pricing. I expect in the future, you'll see the AHP unit's price shift upward just as it has this year.

If you are looking for price only not features or that sort of thing then we do offer the PowerTIG 185 which is just a little less amperage, a good seller and better featured than the Miller diversion for just a little over 900 with a foot pedal. It's a good all around entry level unit for a hobby guy. 15 amps doesn't buy that much more welder. In fact in true output I don't think you'd see that much difference in performance. It has more cleaning in AC and higher AC frequency control than the 200X and also has postflow. If you are using the foot pedal, you won't know the difference between it and at the 200X. It does have 35% duty cycle which is reported less than the 200X, but for most hobbyist that doesn't matter as the diversion only has 15% at 180 amps.

 

[ericher69]

My math doesn't add up to yours. Twice the price of the new 2015 alpha 200x is 1600. The more heavily featured 200DV lists for 1350.00 before discounts. That's a big difference to some people. For twice the price of the 200 DV you won't get close to a Dynasty 200 dx and you won't have much more of a machine, performance wise. You might have more of a name. You'll spend about 4 grand to get into one that is new with accessories. Again, to me, the math doesn't add up. Even if you bought the 210ext, which would compare directly to the Dynasty, but still offer better performance, output and duty cycle the math doesn't begin to come close. Many of my customers who have used Dynasty's (not just me) say that the arc is better on our product from that standpoint on our units. The Dynasty can barely squeak out 200 amps at a scant 20% duty cycle on 220V 1 phase. The warranty on the 200dx is longer. The arc performance on the PT 200DV is better in my opinion and on top of that what goes into the machine is better. It has a far better foot pedal and better torches, and a better regulator that comes with it as part of the package too...and replacements are easily sourced from suppliers other than us. On the 200X not as easy or impossible. The Everlast 200DX has had a stable 6 year track record and the 200X has seen barely 2 years on the market (started selling in 2013 late). AHP product line only has a small 140 MIG in it. It's made to compete with Eastwood and the like. The PowerTIG 200DX is a much more refined machine internally in my opinion, and is also viewed and designed to be a commercial class machine. Knowing what I know about the Ahp product line, the 200DX is priced just right as we struggle to keep up with demand on it as it is. Supply and demand dictate pricing. I expect in the future, you'll see the AHP unit's price shift upward just as it has this year. If you are looking for price only not features or that sort of thing then we do offer the PowerTIG 185 which is just a little less amperage, a good seller and better featured than the Miller diversion for just a little over 900 with a foot pedal. It's a good all around entry level unit for a hobby guy. 15 amps doesn't buy that much more welder. In fact in true output I don't think you'd see that much difference in performance. It has more cleaning in AC and higher AC frequency control than the 200X and also has postflow. If you are using the foot pedal, you won't know the difference between it and at the 200X. It does have 35% duty cycle which is reported less than the 200X, but for most hobbyist that doesn't matter as the diversion only has 15% at 180 amps.

Mark,

I realize it's your job to sell and promote your products but...

Are you really trashing a Dynasty 200dx?

"The Dynasty can barely squeak out 200 amps at a scant 20% duty cycle on 220V 1 phase."

Like it or not the 200dx is the platinum standard!

Yes your right my math is off on the ahp unit vs Everlast. Also a dynasty is more than I remembered; my bad.

Sears.com has the ahp 2015 200x for $752. Double that is $1504 with free shipping vs your $1349 so a $153 dollar difference less than double the price.

Is a better fan and fool pedal worth $597 more to me??

Don't think so...

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[Mark @ Everlast]

Again, you're comparing full list price to discounted prices. The 2015 200x is listed as out of stock in most places.

Any one who has ever welded TIG will tell you that a better foot pedal and torch make a big difference..and being able upgrade or interchange them does as well. Don't forget the unit's stick capabilities and the adjustable arc force control. A lot of our customers buy it for the stick capability as well. Also the internals of the 200DV use name brand components which many are US based companies if not Western Europe or Japan. You don't/won't see such claims for the alpha tig.

The Dynasty may be a platinum standard to you but there's plenty of people who would hold up the Lincoln V205 as it too. And in the whole scope of things internationally, it runs behind other companies. I am not trashing the Dynasty, but there are far better performing machines out there. When you say "Platinum standard"...you need to qualify that. Do you mean the Blue Paint and the name it has on it? I'd give you that in the United States. When you look at performance features, warranty or it doesn't have anything over the broad range of competition. When you look at the Duty cycle of the machine, that is where the REAL difference begins to show up.

If you are looking at price only, there better priced units on the market. A number of them are mosfet, but again if price is the only consideration and none of these things I mentioned don't matter... The sears unit you are looking at is not the 2015 model. It's the 2014 which is missing the AC frequency control.

 

[ericher69]

Again, you're comparing full list price to discounted prices. The 2015 200x is listed as out of stock in most places. Any one who has ever welded TIG will tell you that a better foot pedal and torch make a big difference..and being able upgrade or interchange them does as well. Don't forget the unit's stick capabilities and the adjustable arc force control. A lot of our customers buy it for the stick capability as well. Also the internals of the 200DV use name brand components which many are US based companies if not Western Europe or Japan. You don't/won't see such claims for the alpha tig. The Dynasty may be a platinum standard to you but there's plenty of people who would hold up the Lincoln V205 as it too. And in the whole scope of things internationally, it runs behind other companies. I am not trashing the Dynasty, but there are far better performing machines out there. When you say "Platinum standard"...you need to qualify that. Do you mean the Blue Paint and the name it has on it? I'd give you that in the United States. When you look at performance features, warranty or it doesn't have anything over the broad range of competition. When you look at the Duty cycle of the machine, that is where the REAL difference begins to show up. If you are looking at price only, there better priced units on the market. A number of them are mosfet, but again if price is the only consideration and none of these things I mentioned don't matter... The sears unit you are looking at is not the 2015 model. It's the 2014 which is missing the AC frequency control.

As for being the platinum standard; just walk into any racing/fab shop and they all run Blue!

As for your claims of 20% duty cycle at 200amps. It is a moot point as why would you buy a 200amp machine and run it full out all the time?? Math doesn't add up! Nobody buys a 200amp machine to run full out all day everyday.

I will take into consideration components you have mentioned and features.

Thanks

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[Mark @ Everlast]

If all that was run was blue, Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Would not be in business. Lincoln has a real racing program and some of the best speed shops and racing owners use them. Just because you see a lot of something doesn't mean it's the best....just that the sales team in that area did the best job. Look at any area of the country with tractors. You'll see large pockets of green, red, blue or some other color...not because it was the best tractor, but because it had the best sales/service team. Even in those areas, you'll find plenty of other colors. But you'll always think that someone will think whatever color they see the most of is the best one out there. One of my favorite "incidents" was when I was in farm equipment sales and working for a smaller tractor company. A young guy walks into our booth, obviously full of himself and something else, said, "If you ain't John Deere, then you aint ****!" very abruptly. I asked him of course if that is what he used, and he said something to the effect that "real farmers use them". I then asked him if he ever went to farm sales, in particular Bankruptcy auctions. He said, "yes, several". I asked him which color tractors he saw at those sales...and if he ever saw much of anything else. He hung his head, then nodded, and then quietly walked off.

Point is, I am not dogging on the Dynasty, but when you say it is the platinum standard, that is really like saying Ford or Chevy is the best because that is all you see...and ignoring real features or performance and a host of other things that may be of interest.

As far as duty cycle and power of the Dynasty 200DX that is a real issue,( again it's not saying the unit is bad or trashing it....just a fact that people often feel buyers remorse over), and one of the motivating factors for Miller bringing out the 280. It was a huge price gap and performance problem between the 200 DX and a 350. It was a real issue because of the limited duty cycle of the 200DX. A lot of the smaller guys do run up against the wall with these units and it does cripple them. And they were complaining they needed something in between. And a lot of guys do buy the number, not the performance, and expect to run it at that often...at least from the people I talk to everyday and what I've heard from them over the last 6 years about their plans for use. They always expect to use it near the max for a good bit of time. For aluminum, it is good for 1/4". And in the world of aluminum, that is not an uncommon thickness for a small fab shop. But here's the thing: The duty cycle where it reaches any real world use figures is around 150 amps. That's not quite good enough for serious 3/16" and any serious welding, but people will accept it because they don't know that they have options. They see the blue and think, well if they have it, it must be good! But the V205 lists 40%@200...and touts that as the "highest" in its class, which I am sure they don't take into account anyone but Miller in that statement. Then, when people see that they say "Huh..." and begin to realize that there is more and better out there. In reality, when you go into your local welding supply store and see nice shiny blue, the sales man is going to try to tell you horror stories about another brand, and will push their product. Same thing when you go into a store and see nothing but Lincoln. What is happening though is that the local salesman doesn't tell you if he sells so many of X brand, they get a nice free trip or some big spif at the end of the quarter...and maybe the brands regional rep takes them out for lunch at their favorite local hangout once a month when they stop in. And guess who pays for it? YOU do in the purchase price. There's a lot below the surface when you say something is a Platinum standard...and is the reason I asked people to qualify that based off of performance, actual use or something tangible other than seeing them in use somewhere. I know from customer testimony that Everlast has replaced or is slowly infiltrating fleets of other colors in factories,fab and speed shops because of our performance, price and capabilities. That is why I am not worried about the price point of the 200DV.

Without going into all the details, The Ahp is definitely better in my opinion than the other units made in that same factory...because there is a higher level of product support and involvement in production and long term plans for AHP. If people want to buy one, it is fine. It reinforces the need for a well priced product. But the PowerTIG 200DV is by no means overpriced. There are always people that want price over other functions and that is what the 200x unit delivers.

 

[ericher69]

But the PowerTIG 200DV is by no means overpriced. There are always people that want price over other functions and that is what the 200x unit delivers.

Just saying for $579 over the ahp version it really does not offer much more in value...

Better fan
Better foot pedal
Preflow
Down slope

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[Mark @ Everlast]

The unit is missing adjustable pre flow...and that is a feature that is needed or your welds will start out with some porosity and will dull the tungsten more rapidly especially if you have a draft or any air moving.

It also has 150 Hz pulse versus 5 hz. Big difference in heat control and bead profile especially when welding on thin or expensive materials like stainless tubing or aluminum sheeting or anondized aluminum.

The price you are looking at is for the 2014, which is Missing AC balance control...another huge feature and one reason the AHP likely went up in price when they added it.

But I go back to the thing with the fan, it's not only that it's the components in general internally are not as high or even name brand. There is a reason for the price difference.

 

[ericher69]

The unit is missing adjustable pre flow...and that is a feature that is needed or your welds will start out with some porosity and will dull the tungsten more rapidly especially if you have a draft or any air moving. It also has 150 Hz pulse versus 5 hz. Big difference in heat control and bead profile especially when welding on thin or expensive materials like stainless tubing or aluminum sheeting or anondized aluminum. The price you are looking at is for the 2014, which is Missing AC balance control...another huge feature and one reason the AHP likely went up in price when they added it. But I go back to the thing with the fan, it's not only that it's the components in general internally are not as high or even name brand. There is a reason for the price difference.

Yup

Called corporate greed!

You can't make me believe that your price on the 200dv is that much higher than the 200x for a few extra features and a better fan!

They are all assembled in China in the same factory with the same workers making $20/month...

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[Mark @ Everlast]

No, corporate greed here. It's a completely different factory, better parts and much higher production cost period by a wide margin for the Everlast unit. But again, the 200X meets a certain market segment the Everlast 200DX doesn't. It's for people who want to get into TIG the cheapest way they can, without concern given to quality and brand of internal components, warranty or design. And there's nothing wrong with that because if a person needs something and is only concerned about the bottom line the 200X is a good value. But trust me we could go round and round on this. If the 200X meets your needs, why not go ahead and get it?

 

[ericher69]

No, corporate greed here. It's a completely different factory, better parts and much higher production cost period by a wide margin for the Everlast unit. But again, the 200X meets a certain market segment the Everlast 200DX doesn't. It's for people who want to get into TIG the cheapest way they can, without concern given to quality and brand of internal components, warranty or design. And there's nothing wrong with that because if a person needs something and is only concerned about the bottom line the 200X is a good value. But trust me we could go round and round on this. If the 200X meets your needs, why not go ahead and get it?

I may just do that!

Thanks for making me (and others) aware of the differences in quality and pricepoint.

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