All-electric Bobcat compact track loader

[Fixastuff]

Gosh, (some of) you guys are overreacting like crazy here.

I didn't read every single comment so far, but didn't see anyone mention the huge advantage for these electric units is working indoors. You know, where you don't want humans to breathe the emissions.

But in general, if the performance (power, run-time, reliability, recharge time) isn't sufficient to meet the needs of the industry, these won't catch on. If it is sufficient, well then great! Calm down, folks. AOC is not about to somehow magically mandate that you give up your diesel skid steer.

Come on, they obviously know more than the engineers and accountants at Bobcat/Doosan, Tesla, VW, Mercedes, etc lol

 

[ddbackhoe]

A Tesla 3 will not compare to our daily driver, a Lexus RX350. I don't want a funny car. Elect. will work for a commuter for 100 miles a day, as long as you don't get runover or into by a Dodge Ram or Ford F250.

When there are enough elect cars the government will institute a mileage tax....remember, those elect cars don't pay gasoline road tax, they don't help maintain the roads. THAT WILL CHANGE New cars are already keeping track of your miles driven, so it will be easy for the IRS to collect. It is obvious the government wants to drive us to elect everything. I guess they will address the grid meltdown when it happens.

A wind turbine designer wrote" after you factor in the building and disposal, the turbines I build will never pay for themselves in electricity produced". I forgot the eagles and endangered birds they kill every year! OOPS, not supposed to talk about that.

Bill

Right around the corner….https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/08/11/infrastructure-package-includes-vehicle-mileage-tax-program/?sh=1dace34131c6

 

[ddbackhoe]

Gosh, (some of) you guys are overreacting like crazy here.

I didn't read every single comment so far, but didn't see anyone mention the huge advantage for these electric units is working indoors. You know, where you don't want humans to breathe the emissions.

Yep, lots of dirt moving tasks indoors. How many large scale projects can you point us to where the residents remained while the building was rehabbed?

 

[BigBlue1]

Gosh, (some of) you guys are overreacting like crazy here.

I didn't read every single comment so far, but didn't see anyone mention the huge advantage for these electric units is working indoors. You know, where you don't want humans to breathe the emissions.

But in general, if the performance (power, run-time, reliability, recharge time) isn't sufficient to meet the needs of the industry, these won't catch on. If it is sufficient, well then great! Calm down, folks. AOC is not about to somehow magically mandate that you give up your diesel skid steer.

Have you not been paying attention to politics lately? This stuff is being pushed hard, right now. Spend a couple minutes searching for articles on phasing out production of internal combustion engines. This isn't random speculation...

 

[deezler]

Yep, lots of dirt moving tasks indoors. How many large scale projects can you point us to where the residents remained while the building was rehabbed?

You can't be serious? We're talking about industrial projects, not residential. Not a concern for residents, its a concern for the workers themselves, breathing indoor air. And why would they have to be large-scale projects? Any small materials or earth moving project under a roof would be better served by an emissions-free machine. Anyway it might be a niche application, but it exists.

 

[deezler]

Have you not been paying attention to politics lately? This stuff is being pushed hard, right now. Spend a couple minutes searching for articles on phasing out production of internal combustion engines. This isn't random speculation...

I dyno test pre-production internal combustion engines every day, that is my career. I am acutely aware of the impending demise of the internal combustion engine. Some weeks it feels like every single day brings a new headline about which city or country will ban combustion engine sales by 20XX, or what manufacturer is going all EV after 20XX.

But it doesn't matter how loud politicians yell about it, or whatever fantasy deadlines they impose for the end of ICE vehicle sales. The marketplace has to provide a solution that actually works for consumers. The deadlines and mandates will be rolled back, as needed - Until the battery solutions deliver what we actually need.

We buy 17 million cars every year in the united states. There is not nearly enough lithium and other precious metal mining to supply 17 million battery packs per year, and I don't see that situation being magically resolved any time soon. Thankfully my employer supplies a lot of HD diesel engine components. Diesel engines will be around for many more decades.

 

[BigBlue1]

I dyno test pre-production internal combustion engines every day, that is my career. I am acutely aware of the impending demise of the internal combustion engine. Some weeks it feels like every single day brings a new headline about which city or country will ban combustion engine sales by 20XX, or what manufacturer is going all EV after 20XX.

But it doesn't matter how loud politicians yell about it, or whatever fantasy deadlines they impose for the end of ICE vehicle sales. The marketplace has to provide a solution that actually works for consumers. The deadlines and mandates will be rolled back, as needed - Until the battery solutions deliver what we actually need.

We buy 17 million cars every year in the united states. There is not nearly enough lithium and other precious metal mining to supply 17 million battery packs per year, and I don't see that situation being magically resolved any time soon. Thankfully my employer supplies a lot of HD diesel engine components. Diesel engines will be around for many more decades.

I hope you're right. And I wish that more folks would push back on the 'fantasy' plans instead of just accepting the fact that the train is rolling towards them. But if politicians don't hear pushback they will just keep rolling along.

 

[deezler]

I hope you're right. And I wish that more folks would push back on the 'fantasy' plans instead of just accepting the fact that the train is rolling towards them. But if politicians don't hear pushback they will just keep rolling along.

Yeah, you make a good point. What's almost more concerning to me is to see the manufacturers jump and shift to a sole focus on EVs when their own battery supply chain doesn't exist, and the consumer demand doesn't exist yet either.

 

[bnold]

A Tesla 3 will not compare to our daily driver, a Lexus RX350. I don't want a funny car. Elect. will work for a commuter for 100 miles a day, as long as you don't get runover or into by a Dodge Ram or Ford F250.

When there are enough elect cars the government will institute a mileage tax....remember, those elect cars don't pay gasoline road tax, they don't help maintain the roads. THAT WILL CHANGE New cars are already keeping track of your miles driven, so it will be easy for the IRS to collect. It is obvious the government wants to drive us to elect everything. I guess they will address the grid meltdown when it happens.

Bill

Wife is waiting on an ordered RX350h to come in Feb (hopefully) to replace the X5d, looks like a decent ride. I’m a big Toyota fan. Pretty decent mpg, I’m bummed leaving the attitude of the X5D M-Sport to a more chick mobile in the Lexus, but it is her ride and what she wants. Happy to leave BMW brand behind though, for good.

My commute is 216miles before lunch or other stops daily in the Tesla 3.

Guarantee road tax will have to make it to EVs at some point, will have to as the % of them increases on the road replacing ICE. Money has to come from somewhere.

Totally agree on wind turbines and solar. Make ‘em stand on their own or stop building them. Been long enough and they still don’t make any financial sense that I have seen.

I’m in favor of nukes.
Wish we had many many more.

 

[fishhead]

Oh yeah, I can see new nuke plants being built in the U.S, right after pigs fly. Tidal will harm fish and whales and other marine life Nuke plant, if they are ever built produce their own kind of environmental problem with a half life on spent fuel rods measured in the thousands of years. So far I haven't heard one believable plan to power everything electrically, especially since we are are already over taxing the electrical grid on occasion without every household plugging in a high draw battery charger every night.

Nuclear probably won't happen due to the way it was poorly done the first time in the US, too capital costs are quite high. It is however one of the potentially cleanest large scale energy sources and it is mentioned on the green side as a viable technology and methods exist to mitigate many of its issues-
We need to remember that there are zero options for energy that have no downsides- it comes down to minimizing use and total impact of power production and energy use. Remember that a coal plant gives off more radiation than a nuclear plant watt for watt.
Tidal and wave can work and both are being used successfully , offshore wind is in widespread use in europe as well.

 

[fishhead]

Yep, lots of dirt moving tasks indoors. How many large scale projects can you point us to where the residents remained while the building was rehabbed?

Well JD and another company did a line of tractors aimed at just such a use except the the dirt is chicken ****.
The 4 series HD's are poultry specials
How about indoor arenas, stalls etc

 

[JG0203]

That's fantastic. Operating tiny skid steer front end loaders has always been a hobby of mine. They didn't state it outright, but hinted there will be no hydraulics, which is fantastic if real, however there are a lot of choices for existing bobcat hydraulic skid steers that will have to be modified to work with electricity. If this becomes popular, it will only be a temporary issue, and electric power supplies may become more versatile.

 

[ArlyA]

Electric drive motors and ball screws have been used on CNC equipment since the 80's so the bugs should be ironed out by now.

I've got much good experience using ball screws. Majority of people have no idea what they are.

 

[deezler]

I've got much good experience using ball screws. Majority of people have no idea what they are.

Same, we have a lot of heavy duty CNC machines here at my work. But I am pretty curious how they hold up to harsh use all day long with dirt and dust trying to get past seals, etc.

 

[Fxfymn413]

Yep, lots of dirt moving tasks indoors. How many large scale projects can you point us to where the residents remained while the building was rehabbed?

It happens every day in every city across the country when a tenant fit out happens in a multi-story office building. Entire floors are demolished and re-built to accommodate the new tenant while the other floors are occupied by other tenants.

I can also see rigging contractors being attracted to battery operated machines since they are operating inside factories while moving heavy machinery.

The comments about Sun Belt are pretty much off the mark as they are a very well run European based company that is very profitable. They would not be getting into this market if they did not believe it was going to be in their best interest and financially worthwhile. If nothing else their maintenance costs will be negligible compared to a hydrocarbon fueled machine.

 

[WranglerX]

With all the hype and hysteria about things going electric, no matter what side are you are on, has the world even though of or envisioned the environmental waste for depleted battery systems in the future, are we going to have toxic cess pools from dead and dying batteries just like plastics and nuclear waste....The is going to be so many used vehicles on market it going to be a problem as the come to near end of battery life....

 

[BigBlue1]

With all the hype and hysteria about things going electric, no matter what side are you are on, has the world even though of or envisioned the environmental waste for depleted battery systems in the future, are we going to have toxic cess pools from dead and dying batteries just like plastics and nuclear waste....The is going to be so many used vehicles on market it going to be a problem as the come to near end of battery life....

Of course not. Because that's not what the push to electric is about. It's about making people money and about control.

 

[Fxfymn413]

With all the hype and hysteria about things going electric, no matter what side are you are on, has the world even though of or envisioned the environmental waste for depleted battery systems in the future, are we going to have toxic cess pools from dead and dying batteries just like plastics and nuclear waste....The is going to be so many used vehicles on market it going to be a problem as the come to near end of battery life....

I'm a believer in the free market and the ability of it to react to the opportunity to make money from what others perceive as a problem. Only time will tell, but my bet is there will be solutions for these "problems" when they occur.

 

[Vigo327]

All those are real issues to contend with. The problem is, since there is not enough organic market demand to drive/initiate the build-out of the infrastructure required to address those issues then what will happen is the government will force the vehicles mainstream and then "have to" find ways to fund the solutions/infrastructure with taxpayer money. We'll all end up paying for something that isn't enticing enough on its own for us to want it.

I agree with that but i also feel it has to be put forward with the caveat that the main reason existing fuels are so cheap is because of a century of subsidies in a million forms. Maybe over a century considering it's been over a century since Prohibition started, and that was essentially an anti-competitive movement to prop up oil. Meanwhile, today we subsidize Corn Alcohol and mix it with all our gas.. what would Henry Ford say? Anyway, i digress..

Nuclear has it even worse than other renewables in terms of being behind the curve. It's true that unless we can get China/India to adopt cleaner practices then what USA does cannot bend the curve, but asking someone with less than you to spend more than you to get less than you is never going to work. What that means is the only way to get those players to be 'clean' is to make clean hit cost-parity with dirty. Sad thing is, at this point China is doing about as much to 'save the world' through the cheapening renewables as we are. Carter put solar panels on the white house in the late 70s. There was a big initiative. Panels came down in early 80s. Take a guess on that one. Nuclear has it worse in terms of 'dropping it' for decades and then coming back to it and all the same unsolved problems even though its 2022. Where are the flying cars? We're still working on the problems we punted on 40 years ago. Nuclear needs huge subsidies partially because cheaper reactors that would have been developed havent been because of knee jerk abandonment over safety issues, and the safety issues cause ludicrous insurance requirements. Sad to say, the safety issues primarily have been the problem of insufficient budgeting to keep enough brainpower in the control room at all times. Meanwhile, the US Navy has been taking reactors that for-profit operators can't keep running on land, and floating them all over the world for half a century.

Oh man, i shouldn't have gotten started.

 

[ddbackhoe]

I agree with that but i also feel it has to be put forward with the caveat that the main reason existing fuels are so cheap is because of a century of subsidies in a million forms. Maybe over a century considering it's been over a century since Prohibition started, and that was essentially an anti-competitive movement to prop up oil. Meanwhile, today we subsidize Corn Alcohol and mix it with all our gas.. what would Henry Ford say? Anyway, i digress..

Nuclear has it even worse than other renewables in terms of being behind the curve. It's true that unless we can get China/India to adopt cleaner practices then what USA does cannot bend the curve, but asking someone with less than you to spend more than you to get less than you is never going to work. What that means is the only way to get those players to be 'clean' is to make clean hit cost-parity with dirty. Sad thing is, at this point China is doing about as much to 'save the world' through the cheapening renewables as we are. Carter put solar panels on the white house in the late 70s. There was a big initiative. Panels came down in early 80s. Take a guess on that one. Nuclear has it worse in terms of 'dropping it' for decades and then coming back to it and all the same unsolved problems even though its 2022. Where are the flying cars? We're still working on the problems we punted on 40 years ago. Nuclear needs huge subsidies partially because cheaper reactors that would have been developed havent been because of knee jerk abandonment over safety issues, and the safety issues cause ludicrous insurance requirements. Sad to say, the safety issues primarily have been the problem of insufficient budgeting to keep enough brainpower in the control room at all times. Meanwhile, the US Navy has been taking reactors that for-profit operators can't keep running on land, and floating them all over the world for half a century.

Oh man, i shouldn't have gotten started.

Uhhuh and they have an unresolved waste stream.
US Navy says it met Idaho deadline on spent nuclear fuel | AP News

Of course, Russia is no better off..Russia’s ‘slow-motion Chernobyl’ at sea.

PNNL (Pacific Northwest National Labs) and INL (Idaho National Labs) are working on efforts to recycle nuclear fuel.

SMR’s are supposed to be the future but we’ll see what happens

Small Modular Reactors - World Nuclear Association

There is strong interest in small and simpler units for generating electricity from nuclear power, and for process heat. Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) represent a broad suite of designs that seek to apply the principles of modularity, factory fabrication, and serial production to nuclear energy.

www.world-nuclear.org