Alligator Asphalt

[Deere Dude]

I have a 1300' driveway built around 1996 possibly, with sections that look like the back of an alligator. I never had a blacktop driveway before.

The driveway is approx. 8-9' wide and the bad sections are from the edge toward the center about 2-2-1/2 foot in and sometimes 20-50' long in a few spots. The driveway works but doesn't look appealing because of the cracks although it is nice and black looking. I don't let any heavy trucks on it but I run my trailers (14-16,000#) on it because otherwise I will tear up the lawn to much.

A couple things; I don't want to replace the road because it just goes to a house and barn, even though that would probably be the best thing to do.

A guy stopped out every now and then last year and wanted to spray a liquid based emulsion on it to gussy it up. I forgot the correct terminology he used but I questioned about an asphalt based coating and he said it wouldn't look as nice. He quoted $1150 to cover it with one of them.

Someone else came out and suggested spraying some tar on it and spread small gravel over it.

I wanted to just go to possibly Lowes or Menards to get some kind of sealer to fill the cracks so hopefully it would stay together longer. I looked at the many choices but I didn't know the correct route to take, so I just gave up on it for the time being.

Any suggestions as to the type of sealer to get or any other option I didn't mention

Thanks
Chuck

 

[Fluid]

I had a driveway like that and the people that put down the asphalt cheated me and told me they were going to lay 6"s of asphalt but only laid something like 3-4 inches thick. I did not have any problem with cracking and grass and weeds growing in the cracks until the driveway was 5 to 6 years old. Years later a friend who is in that business said the first asphalt job was too thin and the base was not right. He said that putting a sealer over it would not last and would be a waste of money. He said he could promise that if he redid the asphalt I would not have that problem again. So his crew ripped up the old drive and put down a new base and 6 or 7 inches thick of asphalt. That was 20+ years ago and I still have no cracks or weeds growing through it. I'm happy and we are still friends.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Not having a picture to look at I'm just guessing you have too little base or it is of poor quality and not properly drained. Moisture and frost action is what causes the pavement to fail in an alligator pattern. Driveway sealers are asphalt cement combined with water into an emulsion. Oil and water don't want to mix so it has been put through a pressure pump to force it together. When you apply it the water evaporates and leaves you with just the asphalt. The stuff you buy at the lumber yard is the same stuff just in five gallon pails.
A one inch thick overlay of your 1300 x9' drive would take about 75 tons and cost $7500 to $10,000 depending on local prices. It wouldn't fix the underlining problems but would last seven to ten years and could be done again when it gets bad. Or you could sealcoat it with emulsion as was suggested for your $1200 or so every other year and keep it from falling apart and looking nice each summer after you have it done. I'd get a guy that has a tack buggy that can spray the emulsion on hot and then spread clean sand on it while it is still wet. The hot tack runs down into all the cracks and the sand helps fill in the bigger ones. Fix any potholes you have first as this is really just a thick coat of black paint and whatever is there will show through.

 

[paulharvey]

Alligator cracking is caused by failed base. Weather it's too thin, plastic material under neither, or water in the base, I can't answer, but alligator cracking=base problems. Seal coating will do next to nothing. There are polymer-rubber crack sealers that would perhaps keep the water out of the cracks, slowing the additional damage, but not actually fixing it. The crack sealers are not sprayed over everything; first they blow the dirt/grass out of the cracks with compressed air, then they pour the material over the crack, and squeegee it in. It is done with special kettle heaters, this stuff melts at around 450-500'.

Don't seal coat it. It does nothing productive, and needs redone every year.

Another option would be a chip seal or slag. Basically, they shoot a heavy shot of asphalt tack, spread a thin layer of 1/2" or 3/8" granite or slag in the fresh tack. They then traffic roll it (9 wheel rubber tired rollers you see in paving sometimes). It remains slightly flexible, but water tight. It's hard to find many companies that do it, but many many miles of minor county roads used to be done this way. Some still do it, but at $2.40/Sq yard for single coarse (1 stone deep) and $4.80/for double layer, it's not much less than a 1" over lay ($5.00/Sq yard). Obviously a home owner isn't going to get those prices.... that chip seal price was from a annually contact with ~42 miles, 18-24 ft wide.

 

[dirtyoldog]

if your going to try filling the cracks use the hot rubber product which they do sell at lowes.I have been in the business my whole life.for the alligator areas what I do is fill the kettle up(which lowes sells or they did) make sure area is clean and dry once it gets up to temp around 350 -400 degrees poor out a puddle in the area and spread it with a squeegee while its still hot apply dry sand to the surface let cool alittle then hit the bleeders with sand I use play sand you can use black beaty at 3 times the price if your not going to coat it. the sand is for traction and on a hot day gives you that barrier so it don't tear up on shoes and tires. this method I think looks the best and the hot rubber works the best any cold pour application will fail.caution this will create a smoother and slicker surface so use caution especially in the rain, or up hills in snow,motorcycles use caution in wet conditions,good luck.you can use a more course sand for more traction but make sure its dry any moisture and it wont bond

 

[Fluid]

There is one thing that the three folks did not address that I think is important, How long will all this bandaid fixes last? If someone was to do what was described, would they have to reapply or refreshed at what cost per reapply? How many times and how much would it cost over 25-30 years?

 

[newbury]

if your going to try filling the cracks use the hot rubber product which they do sell at lowes.<snip>

Could you elaborate?
I've the same problem. The only "rubber" product I could find at Lowes on-line is QUIKRETE Asphalt Patch, and that's $8.50 per QUART.

 

[paulharvey]

Could you elaborate?
I've the same problem. The only "rubber" product I could find at Lowes on-line is QUIKRETE Asphalt Patch, and that's $8.50 per QUART.

The stuff I'm familiar with is Crafco. It comes in a ~40 lbs brick that you melt into a semi liquid material. It is Not available at home stores. Maybe at roofing or probably special order.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Alligator cracking is caused by failed base. Weather it's too thin, plastic material under neither, or water in the base, I can't answer, but alligator cracking=base problems. Seal coating will do next to nothing. There are polymer-rubber crack sealers that would perhaps keep the water out of the cracks, slowing the additional damage, but not actually fixing it. The crack sealers are not sprayed over everything; first they blow the dirt/grass out of the cracks with compressed air, then they pour the material over the crack, and squeegee it in. It is done with special kettle heaters, this stuff melts at around 450-500'.

Don't seal coat it. It does nothing productive, and needs redone every year.

Another option would be a chip seal or slag. Basically, they shoot a heavy shot of asphalt tack, spread a thin layer of 1/2" or 3/8" granite or slag in the fresh tack. They then traffic roll it (9 wheel rubber tired rollers you see in paving sometimes). It remains slightly flexible, but water tight. It's hard to find many companies that do it, but many many miles of minor county roads used to be done this way. Some still do it, but at $2.40/Sq yard for single coarse (1 stone deep) and $4.80/for double layer, it's not much less than a 1" over lay ($5.00/Sq yard). Obviously a home owner isn't going to get those prices.... that chip seal price was from a annually contact with ~42 miles, 18-24 ft wide.

x2. The only thing I would add is that make sure your drainage is right. If you have ditches laying with water or if the road base is holding water it won't last long when the frost comes. Doing things the right way is not cheap. Sorry.

 

[vtsnowedin]

There is one thing that the three folks did not address that I think is important, How long will all this bandaid fixes last? If someone was to do what was described, would they have to reapply or refreshed at what cost per reapply? How many times and how much would it cost over 25-30 years?

As it has taken nineteen years to get to this alligatored stage it probably has base that for the most part is adequate. That said you could probably get ten years out of a one inch overlay of 3/8" hot asphalt top mix so If the local installed price is $100 / ton that will cost you $750 a year. Seal and sand might last only two years so at $1200 per application that's $600/ year. I've only used rubberized products as a joint sealer/adhesive and for fill expansion cracks that have been routed out and preheated with a torch. I wouldn't know what a full coverage seal with it would cost but expect it would be quite slippery unless well sanded. By the way emulsion tack coats and seals go down at about 180 degrees. If it goes above 212 the water fraction begins to boil off.

 

[bigtiller]

I have a driveway just like yours but it is only 200' long. I am done spreading money over it! When it gets bad enough that it starts looking like c--p from the road, or my front window, I'll tear it out and go back to gravel or spend some of the kids inheritance for concrete.

 

[Deere Dude]

I have a driveway just like yours but it is only 200' long. I am done spreading money over it! When it gets bad enough that it starts looking like c--p from the road, or my front window, I'll tear it out and go back to gravel or spend some of the kids inheritance for concrete.

I like the way you think. I'll just ask the kids what I should do with their inheritance:laughing:

 

[Deere Dude]

if your going to try filling the cracks use the hot rubber product which they do sell at lowes.I have been in the business my whole life.for the alligator areas what I do is fill the kettle up(which lowes sells or they did) make sure area is clean and dry once it gets up to temp around 350 -400 degrees poor out a puddle in the area and spread it with a squeegee while its still hot apply dry sand to the surface let cool alittle then hit the bleeders with sand I use play sand you can use black beaty at 3 times the price if your not going to coat it. the sand is for traction and on a hot day gives you that barrier so it don't tear up on shoes and tires. this method I think looks the best and the hot rubber works the best any cold pour application will fail.caution this will create a smoother and slicker surface so use caution especially in the rain, or up hills in snow,motorcycles use caution in wet conditions,good luck.you can use a more course sand for more traction but make sure its dry any moisture and it wont bond

At Lowes the other day I ran across asphalt chunks used for that. If I would buy a pallet I could get a heater free, or some kind of deal anyway. I'll recheck that and go over the other ideas thrown out. I'll try to get a few pictures, but you people that are in the know, all know what I'm taking about anyway. I just need to pry some money out of the wife's hand for this project.

 

[vtsnowedin]

I just need to pry some money out of the wife's hand for this project.

Another good wife guarding the checkbook like a rabid pit bull! A lot of us here at TBN have this difficulty. A good thing too.!

 

[Deere Dude]

There are a lot of good ideas here. The fly by night crew that sealed the long deep cracks across the driveway used a hand pour pot. He threw a brick of rubberized tar of some sort and heated it up with a wand hooked to a propane tank. When it was melted he walked around and with the hand lever let it run into the crack. Those pour pots are fairly cheap, and bricks I know I can get from Lowes possibly, so I might try that.

Big outfits most likely have a heating machine of some sort but this method might be something I can handle. Any thoughts on doing it that way.

I don't mind slippery, but I could throw some sand over the to also.

 

[vtsnowedin]

That will certainly work on a small job. I'm just used to using a bigger pot.

 

[newbury]

I've about 150 yards by 7 yards or so of asphalt drive and parking area. There are several "patches" of it cracking, areas maybe 6 x 6 yards. The cracking areas are mostly on the edges of the main path and I suspect they have less base. Most of it seems good.

I've got my B7610 w/ backhoe. I was thinking of just digging up the affected areas and then making sure I had sufficient base and repaving over the patch area. Since about 90% of the paved area is good I didn't think it would justify getting in a contractor.

Can I reheat the asphalt I dig up, perhaps w/ some new, and put it back down? What type equipment is needed for a small scale operation? I was thinking of something like a small hot tar kettle like I used to run when I did flat roofs in a previous life. Or a 50 gallon drum to heat the mix and then dump it.

 

[vtsnowedin]

I've about 150 yards by 7 yards or so of asphalt drive and parking area. There are several "patches" of it cracking, areas maybe 6 x 6 yards. The cracking areas are mostly on the edges of the main path and I suspect they have less base. Most of it seems good.

I've got my B7610 w/ backhoe. I was thinking of just digging up the affected areas and then making sure I had sufficient base and repaving over the patch area. Since about 90% of the paved area is good I didn't think it would justify getting in a contractor.

Can I reheat the asphalt I dig up, perhaps w/ some new, and put it back down? What type equipment is needed for a small scale operation? I was thinking of something like a small hot tar kettle like I used to run when I did flat roofs in a previous life. Or a 50 gallon drum to heat the mix and then dump it.

Contractors installing plug expansion joints on bridges use steel drum cement mixers with a propane rose bud torch held to direct the flame into the turning drum. they mix up a wheel barrow at a time and often have three mixers and torches running in a row on a trailer they haul from bridge to bridge.
I never thought to take a picture of that setup. The last time I did any of that was at night and traffic in the open lane was always doing double takes when they saw the torch flames. Where you could get some new asphalt cement to freshin up the mix I don't know. Perhaps roofing cement in gallon cans would do.

 

[paulharvey]

There are a lot of good ideas here. The fly by night crew that sealed the long deep cracks across the driveway used a hand pour pot. He threw a brick of rubberized tar of some sort and heated it up with a wand hooked to a propane tank. When it was melted he walked around and with the hand lever let it run into the crack. Those pour pots are fairly cheap, and bricks I know I can get from Lowes possibly, so I might try that.

Big outfits most likely have a heating machine of some sort but this method might be something I can handle. Any thoughts on doing it that way.

I don't mind slippery, but I could throw some sand over the to also.

Should work, but clean the cracks out with compressed air first.

 

[Sprinklerman]

I do some asphalt work , A poor mans tar and chip is to get foundation coating , ( tar ) spread it over the area , throw sand or stone dust on it till no tar comes thru . I did my fathers drive , looks good for a drive installed in 1967 .