Alternative third function

[currierej]

I added an add-a-grapple to my tractor, instead of using an electric third function I added an extra valve, instead of $700+ it cost me about $200 for the valve and fittings.
I used quick disconnects on the grapple and later I'm thinking about adding tee's to the lines and running lines to the rear. I would only be able to run the front or the rear one at a time, but that's still better than no hydraulics at all.

 

[npalen]

Which port is that where it's teed on the front side of the valve? (Just trying to visualize your circuitry)

 

[ovrszd]

I did a similar system on my first FEL 3rd function. Only drawback was not being able to do FEL functions and Grapple function at the same time due to lever location.

Nice work.

 

[npalen]

View attachment 539036
I added an add-a-grapple to my tractor, instead of using an electric third function I added an extra valve, instead of $700+ it cost me about $200 for the valve and fittings.
I used quick disconnects on the grapple and later I'm thinking about adding tee's to the lines and running lines to the rear. I would only be able to run the front or the rear one at a time, but that's still better than no hydraulics at all.

Are you able to run the loader and grapple at the same time by using both hands?

 

[CincyFlyer]

Are you able to run the loader and grapple at the same time by using both hands?

With open center systems, that's not possible if you add on a valve; the first valve in the "chain" takes all of the juice. Some valve blocks can allow some semblance of operating simultaneously, however.

 

[LD1]

Hopefully the only thing you "tee'd" is the return.

And the pic may be deceptive......but it looks like I only see 4 hoses going to that new valve.....it NEEDS to have FIVE. The two work ports are a given....running up to the grapple. But the other three need to be PRESSURE, POWER BEYOND, and RETURN/TANK.

If your setup is NOT like that.....I'd stop using it immediately. And that dont mean stop using the grapple......that means stop using the hydraulics period. Because if you didnt use a PB valve....you are pressurizing the tank passages in the new valve everytime you use the hydraulics.....and at best you will blow seals out of the new valve and it will leak. At worst....you will crack the casting and get a face full of high pressure oil.

 

[currierej]

The return to tank port is the one that's tee'd.
I wasn't able to find out if the original valve offered power beyond, so I bought a valve for the grapple that had power beyond.
The current system is pressure in to the new valve and a line from the power beyond port to the original valve

 

[LD1]

The return to tank port is the one that's tee'd.
I wasn't able to find out if the original valve offered power beyond, so I bought a valve for the grapple that had power beyond.
The current system is pressure in to the new valve and a line from the power beyond port to the original valve

Sounds correct then.

But if you were handy enough to do that.......an electric third-function would not have cost much more.....and you would have not had to remove your hand from the loader joystick to operate.

The only difference in cost would have been the cost difference of an electric valve vs the valve you have.......and the buttons/rocker switch. But you would have saved the money on one of the hoses as electric valve/subplate usually have pressure rated tank ports so no need for the PB line

 

[currierej]

I considered building my own electric setup, but this is my first time working with hydraulics like this, and in the future I want to use this as a base to add rear remotes

 

[MossRoad]

Nice job!

Just a question as to why it would cost $700 for an electric diverter, though?

 

[npalen]

With open center systems, that's not possible if you add on a valve; the first valve in the "chain" takes all of the juice. Some valve blocks can allow some semblance of operating simultaneously, however.

Would you not be able to operate both valves simultaneously if the "first" valve is being feathered and still allowing excess flow to "power beyond" to the second valve. It seems that if the first valve is opened only enough to use half of the pump output then the remainder has to go somewhere which would be out the PB port to the second valve.

The two valves (or spools in the same valve) in mind would be the bucket and grapple functions. I just asking as I don't fully understand.

Edit: The attached pic shows the third function in the same valve.

 

[4570Man]

Would you not be able to operate both valves simultaneously if the "first" valve is being feathered and still allowing excess flow to "power beyond" to the second valve. It seems that if the first valve is opened only enough to use half of the pump output then the remainder has to go somewhere which would be out the PB port to the second valve.

The two valves (or spools in the same valve) in mind would be the bucket and grapple functions. I just asking as I don't fully understand.

Not very good. The lower pressure of the two tends to get all the flow.

 

[npalen]

Not very good. The lower pressure of the two tends to get all the flow.

But wouldn't it be the same as feathering a joystick to give lift and bucket functions simultaneously?

 

[ovrszd]

But wouldn't it be the same as feathering a joystick to give lift and bucket functions simultaneously?

Yes. The pump isn't intelligent. It simply provides flow which builds pressure until the flow rate reaches it's capacity, then no pressure is created. So, if the first valve doesn't use it all there is pressure created in the second, etc., etc.

This principle is why higher pump flow on bigger tractors can run more functions at once.

This can be demonstrated by lowering your 3pt. Then lift/curl your FEL. while that is happening also lift your 3pt. Action there will be very slow if any. Release the FEL control and watch how quickly your 3pt responds.

 

[npalen]

But if you feather the loader valve using half of the pump output would the 3PT hitch raise at roughly half speed?
My intent here is not be argumentative, just needing help to get this clear in my mind. Thanks.

 

[ovrszd]

But if you feather the loader valve using half of the pump output would the 3PT hitch raise at roughly half speed?
My intent here is not be argumentative, just needing help to get this clear in my mind. Thanks.

No argument at all.

Yes, in theory. There are some variables. But generally, yes.

I have what's known as true 3rd function on my Kubota. A solenoid operated valve plumbed after the FEL valve. My tractor has enough flow to perform all three functions at once. I've never tried the 3pt test to see if it will move at all. I'm guessing it would be pretty slow.

With small tractors and low pump gpm I believe a diverter valve is the best setup. At no time are more than two functions activated at the same time. Learning to push/release the diverter button to switch from 3rd function to curl function and back is easily learnable. Many, many guys here on TBN use this system and highly recommend it.