Alternative to Third Forward for Hydraulic Powered Attachments

[Vigo327]

I know it has a 16x1.5 metric thread on the end of the rod because I swapped out the end for a spherical joint with a 5/8 through hole. I drilled the other end of the cylinder to 5/8 as well. Stock cat1 top link pins are 3/4 but i was using a 5/8 pin before anyway and having the play makes me feel a little better about one end of the cylinder not having any articulation. The stock holes on the cylinder ends are 1/2 which should be fine for the grapple.

If you dont already have an auxiliary hydraulic circuit with valve on your tractor this will be WAY easier and cheaper than buying and plumbing that in.

 

[Vigo327]

My electrohydraulic top link is still working fine. Just.. slow. It's noticeably slower when loaded than when unloaded, to the point that i sometimes turn around and stare directly at the rod/cylinder dust seal area to see if it's moving. Having said that, im VERY happy with it being such a cheap solution to a power top link and im planning to build a 'hydraulic thumb' for my backhoe using the other one i bought (i bought two). That tractor actually has some ports I could plumb into (would still need valve) but.. im saving those for a bucket grapple.

In terms of using it for a grapple it would NEVER be loaded up as much as my top link is because the grapple lid weighs next to nothing compared to entire Cat1 3pt attachments my cylinder is essentially lifting. You also probably don't need the full force of the cylinder either since usually what you are doing with a grapple is shrinking the hole that things can escape through, not holding the objects with pure pinching force. If you didn't need the full strength of the cylinder you could move the attachment point inwards toward the pivot pin wherever it hooks to the grapple lid and that would speed things up.

Really, my main complaint with this thing is that there's so little variety. I waited a long time to buy these cylinders because i couldn't find anyone that had them and i couldn't find anything else even similar for similar money. So i couldn't find different bore size, different stroke length, etc. It's just hey, here's this one thing and if you can use it great, if you can't well tough crap.

Here are 2 pics showing max tilt in both directions with my box blade. I could probably rejigger the mounting a bit to get more 'rearward tilt' but the forward tilt is much more useful to me, and the way it is right now is perfect for box blade use in my opinion. Clearly not a grapple, but hey it's in use lifting heavy objects and making me happy, which is as close as you're probably gonna get to 'real world example' of these cylinders on a tractor. Unless my idea takes off.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP........Alternatively I could get one of the self contained pump and reservoir assemblies and mount it to the tractor body, and run the hydraulics forward. Still considerably less than buying third forward kit. Anyone see downsides to this approach?

I'm not buying the whole electro-hydraulic argument. Sure you can do electro/hydraulic cheaper. But that's what you get in return, too. I think you are fooling yourself by comparing the ebay electro/hydraulic with an $800 or $1200 hydrualic kit.

You already have hydraulics. Adding another circuit is just a matter of some skull sweat to design it & buying the parts online. A single spool directional control is $75.00. A cylinder $125, diverter valve or PB is $50, and $50 for hoses. All from the Surplus Center or any similiar outlet.

The rest of the work to mount a grapple is all the same with any system, but with full hydraulics you have strength, speed, and the abilty to withstand the bucket curl. The electrical over hydraulic gives you none of that. You might as well just have a manual grapple that is closed with a lever or winch...
Sorry to disagree,
rScotty

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I'm not buying the whole electro-hydraulic argument. Sure you can do electro/hydraulic cheaper. But that's what you get in return, too. I think you are fooling yourself by comparing the ebay electro/hydraulic with an $800 or $1200 hydrualic kit.

You already have hydraulics. Adding another circuit is just a matter of some skull sweat to design it & buying the parts online. A single spool directional control is $75.00. A cylinder $125, diverter valve or PB is $50, and $50 for hoses. All from the Surplus Center or any similiar outlet.

The rest of the work to mount a grapple is all the same with any system, but with full hydraulics you have strength, speed, and the abilty to withstand the bucket curl. The electrical over hydraulic gives you none of that. You might as well just have a manual grapple that is closed with a lever or winch...
Sorry to disagree,
rScotty

The dealer I talked to said they can order the kit from TYM which fits. Hard hydraulic lines on the FEL, new mounting plates to accommodate six hoses, correct buttons to install in the stock loader handle For around $1100.. That would be a very simple bolt on which could be done in a Saturday. I tried going that route and the kit got lost in shipping, then the replacement got back ordered.

Another option is a kit from Summit, around $750, I may have to round up flexible hydraulic lines, or bend hard line myself, and come up with my own mounts. that is a full weekend, plus an afternoon during the week, and then at least half of a Saturday.

The third option is to buy valves and an add on switch and fabricate everything myself. Which I can do, but will require a weekend to get everything measured, at least one day off work to get the hoses and mounts fabricated, (the guys who sell steel, and make hoses don’t work weekends), and the next weekend to get it all installed.

The electro-hydraulic is attractive only because I don’t have a bunch of hydraulics to fabricate, and figure out where to route. The pump/reservoir can mount on the FEL, wiring is pretty easy to run, a trailer wiring plug and socket, make it pretty easy to connect disconnect.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP..... that is a full weekend, plus an afternoon during the week, and then at least half of a Saturday.

SNIP..... Which I can do, but will require a weekend to get everything measured, at least one day off work to get the hoses and mounts fabricated, (the guys who sell steel, and make hoses don’t work weekends), and the next weekend to get it all installed.

It's hard to figure time vs money on a hobby.

 

[ovrszd]

Thanks. I’m waiting for information from the seller on what diameter the pin and cylindeer rod are. But will probably order one.

It just seams a lot more cost effective than adding the third forward.

Research "Diverter Valves". A diverter and the accessories to make it work will cost $350 at the most. Will share your curl function. Very common setup for 3rd function.

 

[npalen]

https://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Electric-trailer-Double-Acting/dp/B01BV41U7K?th=1

An alternative?

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

https://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Electric-trailer-Double-Acting/dp/B01BV41U7K?th=1

An alternative?

The flow rate is too low, and I think the pressure is too high.

Just double checked: The cylinder volume for the one installed on the grapple, is about .2-gallon. So at the rated 2-gpm @3200-psi, it could go full stroke open or close in about 6-sec. I would probably lower the pump blow off pressure down to around 2500-psi.

Now I need to figure out how sensitive to orientation the inlet on the pump is. They are designed to mount on a trailer in a relatively flat position. Mounting it on the FEL with the inlet moving around might not work well.

 

[MossRoad]

Your grapple came with a cylinder and hoses. I'd just get a 12v solenoid valve for under $200 and install it in your dump/curl circuit. You'd need a couple of hoses, some fittings, wire, and a switch on your joystick. I'd guess you could do it for under $400, $500 certainly, and it would be a nice, neat, quick to operate installation.

 

[ovrszd]

Your grapple came with a cylinder and hoses. I'd just get a 12v solenoid valve for under $200 and install it in your dump/curl circuit. You'd need a couple of hoses, some fittings, wire, and a switch on your joystick. I'd guess you could do it for under $400, $500 certainly, and it would be a nice, neat, quick to operate installation.

Yep. That was my suggestion as well. If you locate the diverter out on the FEL arm just behind the SSQA or however the bucket attaches, the hoses will be short.

No way would I consider adding an electric motor, additional hydraulic pump and a tank to do something so basic as run a Grapple. Well,,,, after consideration,,,, there's no way I would add that equipment for any function.