Am I thinking to big?

   / Am I thinking to big? #31  
my machine of choice would be a LARGE excavator, I have taken down entire structures including concrete foundations and peers and they are brutal to remove and don't even have a root ball!!!! they are a straight shot - tried excavating, tried breaking them up ( more mess to clean up so more time ) more time to beat them apart, more time to sweat on them - let the machine do the work - and then give it back
 
   / Am I thinking to big? #32  
I watched a ton of videos on youtube of people digging up stumps with smaller backhoes. They generally start about 3-4 feet away from the stump and go to it. Are you guys suggesting this can't be done?
98% of the stumps I want to remove have been there for 30 years. Where we live tree roots generally don't go very deep, they spread out due to the rocks, not down.
It can certainly be done. And since you were very specific on your wants (backhoe, tractor, one machine) I still think you'd see a noticeable difference between a regular tractor/backhoe and a purpose built TLB with considerably more digging/breakout force.
Regardless, an 18" sized stump would NOT take a day or two to dig out.


If your interested in alternatives, a stumpgrinder would be an excellent choice here. Those stumps would be quickly ground away with a PTO stumpgrinder and anything more than 30hp or so at the PTO. The difference between stumpgrinding and digging the stumps out has many benefits:
Less chance of soil erosion, bringing up rocks, and losing organic material
Considerably less time in the vast majority of cases (unless using a really large sized excavator)
exponentially less cleanup/"mess" by grinding vs. removal.

I have both, a PTO stumpgrinder, and a 43k lb excavator. I still grind my stumps unless there is reason for complete removal (building a structure over the site, excavating out material to make new grade etc.)



...In retrospect, the things I've regretted usually resulted from trying to save money.

Captain Dirty

That's some serious wisdom right there :thumbsup:
 
   / Am I thinking to big?
  • Thread Starter
#34  
How much time are we talking about to dig out a stump with a 45 hp backhoe attachment?
Stumps here average 30-40 years old, are 14-16 inches in diameter, and roots do not run deep as they spread out in our rocky sandy soil.
Time to dig once I get the hang of the machine?
 
   / Am I thinking to big? #35  
How much time are we talking about to dig out a stump with a 45 hp backhoe attachment?
Stumps here average 30-40 years old, are 14-16 inches in diameter, and roots do not run deep as they spread out in our rocky sandy soil.
Time to dig once I get the hang of the machine?


Here's what you do.... go to the local rental yard. Rent a small tracked excavator for the weekend rate. Should be $300. Take it home, dig out some of your smaller stumps to start with, them move up to larger ones. That'll give you some idea about how much time it'll take to do various types/sizes of stumps on your place in your soil conditions. It's well worth $300.
 
   / Am I thinking to big? #36  
I read the OP but am still not sure if the trees have been cut yet?...or they are existing stumps?
FWIW...
If the trees have not been cut the stumps will be exponentially easier to remove with a hoe by leaving more trunk for leverage...
 
   / Am I thinking to big? #37  
I would bet that most is not all the folks who recommend skipping the backhoe have never owned one and maybe even never used one.
The price to buy seems excessive, but compared to renting every time one is needed, it is cheap. You can spend over $1000 to rent a machine for a week and still need one at times. Lots of small task will not get done if you have to rent and sometimes it is just not feasible to "stack the tasks up till you can justify a rental" as many non-TLB owners suggest.

I would recommend that you look at a dedicated TLB like the Kubota line. I am always surprised at what I can do with my little B26. Sometimes, I would love to have a L48 instead of my B26 but really the B26 does what I need it to do in most cases. Only stump I couldn't take out was a 36" oak, even after digging completely around it and under it as much as I could, I couldn't budge it with my TLB. I ended up stacking storm damaged trees on top and burning it out over 2-3 burns. I have dug out 18-24" pines which in my area have long tap roots. None took me more than a couple of hours on even the largest one. I dug out several standing 24" at the base dead pines. Easy to do, just dig around them, then use the backhoe bucket to gently nudge them over. Just be careful that you don't dig too much to make the tree unstable before pushing it over.
 
   / Am I thinking to big? #38  
hey randy,

that's a can of worms regarding time since there are many anomalies around GPM, machine cycle speeds, amount of rock/dirt, type of tree, root ball but going on the laws of averages, from my experience on oak, hickory, walnut, hedge, locust, hackberry, pine, cedar, in those sizes it will be a while and you will be faster with a smaller bucket vs larger - why.........because to penetrate hard items such as rocks, clay, roots, the ability to get through, around, between is so much easier and less digging with the smaller bucket. Clay sticks to everything and roots bind it as well as rocks, I can assure you the root balls will be as big or bigger than your tractor/loader and backhoe on a 45hp unit not to mention weigh as much and more - I seriously doubt you will even be able to get the entire root balls out with your machine unless you use some engineered leverage manipulation. I have 10K lb skid steer and on 18 inch stumps its a 2 hour job to get a stump ball out in our soils if things go well. Then what the heck do I do with the monstrosity once its out of the ground you sure as heck are not going to lift it and my machine is a 2500lb lift machine. most 45hp tractors are going to weight from 2500 to 4500 add the backhoe and loader you might be lucky to hit 6500 - good luck moving that rootball, you are basically adding more and more time and effort and stress on everything including your own frustration.

I can move and roll the root balls but where do you put them? you will have a heck of a time pushing them around in the timber and get them hung up on things and take more time and stresses etc......

they do not dissolve, they do not rott quick, they do not get much lighter, we place them in ditches, lakes/pond for cover for fish, as we are building/taking them out because they are truly obstacles

my concern for you would be wearing out your machine quickly, breaking things, getting hurt, all of those things trying to do a job that needs something much larger. not trying to talk you out of anything but I would rather work with a rock than a stump.

I agree with the others a 45hp tractor would be adequate for most all other things but I think you will get frustrated quickly with the stumps and then have a backhoe that you are pondering uses for it since the stumps have won out -

For what you are looking at the easiest would be a large excavator/trackhoe - however you will then be looking at taking out good trees trying to get it to the stumps due to its size, that is why most would probably recommend a dedicated backhoe that weighs 14 to 20K lbs OR the stump grinder of larger size that would do the trick.

IF you have other uses for the backhoe attachment, by all means consider it and give it a shot but from your honest description to an honest experienced stump battler, I have lost many a battle with them and they are overwhelming in many ways.

just for reference, I had an entire house/lot/foundation to clear from a fire on 4 acres - rented a 220 Volvo excavator, including delivery I had it for a week to the tune of 3000 - 2200 for the rental, 800 for delivery/pickup -

took out the entire log house, concrete foundation, broke up everything and cleaned out burned trees/stumps, and done in 5 days and did it all myself - you can do things very quickly with the right sized machine.

all of the BIG trees on this property acreage including mine are in the 40 to 80 yr range, when I put in the road the oldest we had to harvest was 96 according to the rings - the large 80 to 96 yr trees were in the 22 inch diameter range so a little larger than yours but not a lot. Oaks, hickory, mostly hardwoods - the Volvo 220 is around 50K lbs - It still took me about 20 to 30 mins to get one out and then again like I said what to do with a giant rootball!!!!

trees with an 18inch diameter will have a tap root that you will not be able to chew through most likely other than a nibble at a time with your backhoe attachment due to the leverage and weight you have to force the break to happen and likely you will end up digging the dirt away then using your chainsaw - reach will be an issue trying to excavate the root ball on something that size also and chewing around it. Again, it will take time so be prepared - I would perfect my art on smaller ones and maybe save the big ones for later/bigger machines.

I would HIGHLY recommend getting a machine out there to try before you commit to a purchase, you need to realize what you are getting into and your machines limitations and prepare for the other stuff.

hope this helps.....
 
   / Am I thinking to big? #39  
I forgot to mention that I keep my backhoe on all the time. I don't need to remove it to use the 3 PH since I have a second tractor, but if I did, it is a 10-15 minute job to unhook and put on the lift arms (Did that one time when I bought it to see how it was done).
The only time I use a shovel now is to plant flowers in the wife's flower beds. If I find a rock in the yard that I start to scalp with the lawnmower, I get the backhoe out and dig it up. Sometimes it is small, but many times they get larger as you uncover them. If I cant kick it loose with my foot when I find it, it is backhoe time. I think I have probably saved my self several doctor visits by using the backhoe in the last 8 years of ownership.
With over 600 hours of use, even if I just calculated $50 per hour, the tractor has paid for itself many $$$$ over the purchase price of the tractor. I could likely sell it for what I bought it for so rental $$$ would have just been thrown out the window had I even thought about doing that.

EDIT: Hours used on my TLB is only on 11 acres of mostly pasture land with maybe 2 acres in trees. I can just imagine how much use you would get on 40+ acres of timber
 
   / Am I thinking to big? #40  
...trees with an 18inch diameter will have a tap root...

The size of a tree has little or nothing to do with the type of root system it has...
 

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