Amending Clay Soil - cheaply?

Bob_Skurka · May 28, 2005

We have heavy clay. Where we used to have a traditional garden I amended the soil with compost and sand. The garden started out pretty small, it was probably 30' wide by 100' long. In that little area I dumped the entire contents of a 3 axel dump truck full of sand and tilled it in. It helped, but not enough! When mixing sand with clay, I agree with the others, you need a LOT of sand. I think the compost probably helped more.

But what ended up making the soil the easiest to deal with was when the lovely Mrs_Bob decided that our daughter's playhouse would look great in the spot that the garden used to sit! Now I don't really have much work in that garden at all /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif This year I started again, but on a much grander scale, the garden will be about 2 acres and I just took over part of the 32 acre farm field that I lease to a real farmer.

BTW, someone up the thread suggested contacting a town that composts . . . THAT IS A GREAT IDEA and I completely forgot about that, but one of the towns about 20 miles north of me does that, I'm thinking I may contact them and see about getting my dirt hauler to bring down several loads of compost for me, it would certainly be worth a try (after this years harvest).

BoneheadNW · May 28, 2005

What a great thread! The only thing that I would add is that "mixing" anything in with clay is easier said than done. We could compare the density of eachother's clay (my clay is heavier than yours), but the stuff I have here is nearly impossible to mix. When they were building the house the excavator would routinely get stuck in the stuff and the dump trucks had a hard time dumping the clay as it would stick in the bed.

We hired a bulldozer to distribute a huge pile of organic material (composted material shredded by a tub grinder) around our back yard area. I then blew in two high-sided dump trucks full of material from the settling ponds of a sewage treatment plant (I didn't tell my wife at the time as she would have freaked out. I know that because she freaked out when I told her a year later). I can't remember what they called it but it seemed to work well and was pretty cheap. We then hydroseeded over that.

Bonehead

Tom_H · May 28, 2005

BoneheadNW, to mix clay with sand, wait until the clay is dry and hard. Then rototill the surface of the clay to turn it into powder. Lay sand on top of it. Now rototill this several times to mix the small and large particles together. This will be much more effective than trying to mix when the clay is wet; there will not be a consistent mixing when wet. The downside of this is that the small amount of texture the clay had is now gone because the clay has been pulverized. Next, you would need to mix in lots of organic matter to restore texture and provide moisture retention. One thing the organic material does is to take microscopic clay particles and bind them into larger clumps. With the action of roots, frost heave, earthworms, etc. to move the soil around, the soil will change its texture such that it develops nodule like clumps of matter (many clay particles bound together by the organic compounds) which have aerated space between them. This provides breathing space in the soil while partially decomposed pieces of woody matter act as little sponge like water reservoirs which can provide moisture to roots.

Was the "manure" from the sewage treatment plant perhaps called "guano"? That's what they call bat droppings that have accumulated in caves over tens of thousands of years. This stuff was once "mined" from caves and sold as fertilizer.

jeffinsgf, regarding sand on the golf course: if the soil was heavy clay before they built the course, they probably laid down a lot of sand and tilled or disced it in before they laid the initial sod. Over time, the sand settles downward through the clay and you wind up with the surface (where the shallow grass roots are) having more clay particles and fewer sand particles. The subsoil now is a good mixture of particle sizes while the topsoil needs more sand. Spreading a little more sand each year, as you have described, will restore the correct proportions at the surface of the soil. This process, however, is dependant on that heavy application of sand at the beginning. Simply adding a little sand yearly without the initial heavy application, would not be effective.

willywildes: I do not agree with your comment to jeffinsgf,( "over sanding a green or fairway is not what this thread is about...") I think his comment is pertainent to the discussion. Even if it were unrelated, he is free to express his opinion. The only thing the moderators do not allow is vitriolic and vulgar language. Your composition has run-on sentences which do not begin with upper case letters, yet no one has chastised you for what you have written. I do not think what you have said to Jeff is appropriate.

willywildes · May 28, 2005

I forgot the period. excuse me. you added three changing the tone. if you want to amend your soil cheaply, by over sanding your fairway or green. knock your self out... good luck!!!

Tom_H · May 28, 2005

( I forgot the period. excuse me. you added three changing the tone. if you want to amend your soil cheaply, by over sanding your fairway or green. knock your self out... good luck!!! )

That's not at all what your original post said. Here, in toto, is your original quote:

( over sanding a green or fairway is not what this thread is about you like sand knock your self out. good luck.)

When an excerpt is taken from a quotation, three periods denotes that the original quotation actually continued and that only a portion has been quoted. If the quotation has been redacted at the beginning, the quote begins with quotation marks followed by three periods then the included portion of the quote. If the middle of the quote has been redacted, the redacted portion is replaced by three periods at that location in the midst of the quote. As is in the case of your quote, which I redacted, if a quote is redacted at the end, the redacted portion is replaced by three periods and followed by a close quote mark. Should the redacting editor's commentary continue in the same sentence, but beyond the quotation, a comma is placed between the third period and the closing quotation mark. If the sentence ends with the quote, such a comma is not employed.

The point of my reply to you was that your statement to Jeff implies that this thread is about something other than the topic about which he wrote. I do not agree with your statement to him. The insertion of a period would not change your meaning. Your last post has an entirely different meaning from your previous post.

I would recommend that you educate yourself better in both content and convention prior submitting written compositions. You are making the degree of your depth of knowledge all too clear.

willywildes · May 28, 2005

You crack me up.

fractal · May 28, 2005

PB

I think many have missed the "cheaply" point.

The issue with sand is the amount needed for most clay soils. I think many people, including the above referenced "expert" suggest 50:50 ratios of clay to sand will give decent soil. Unfortunately you are looking at tilling up the top 6 inches, removing 3 inches, bringing in 3 inches of sand, and mixing it. This may not be "cheap" depending on your access to sand.

The "common" way to amend clay soils is with organic material. ANY organic material. People all recommend what they have used but many miss the "cheap" part. Point is that any organic material will work. People living next to a sawmill will use saw dust. People living next to a cow farm will use cow manuer. People living next to a horse farm will use horse manuer. People living near a mushroom factory will use mushroom compost. And so forth. The key is

1 - LOTS of it
2 - cheap

Now, "fast" and "cheap" don't often go togather for fixing soil. The only "fast" way is to dig it all out and bring in good quality top soil. The "cheap" ways take time. 3 - 4 inches of organic material mixed into the top 6-8 inches the first year followed by an inch or two for the next 3 or 4 years will give pretty good soil. You will have to add additional organic material every year or so to "keep up".

Sand, on the other hand, may require a bit more upfront expense to bring it in and mix it in but may offer a less compacting base in the future. Only thing is, last time I priced having a bunch removed and replaced with sand and tilled in, it turned out cheaper to have the top 6 inches removed and replaced with sandy loam topsoil.

Up to you, but pretty much everyone says that a little sand won't do any good and may actually cause harm. It takes a lot of sand to make it right. Compare this with ANY amount of organic material is a step in the right direction..

willywildes · May 28, 2005

AMEN! And the structure to your post looks great.

SPIKER · May 28, 2005

I agree with about 1/2 of the posters: to do it right do it right... remove & replace is a major expence but is done once if this LAWN is getting done then you only want to do it once...

now to maintain it the sand, gypsum & organic mix is way to go for less expense and doing it once...

anyhow gypsum actually binds the clay particals on a molecular level and creats a sand LIKE partical which has it's own name I don't know what it is though it was on a organic gardening show once. the organic mater (like described above, poo saw dust ect. helps creat more space between the clay sand like particals. this lets the water flow through the clay. the problem is it HAS TO GO SOMEPLACE! if the ground is 6" of good soil and then a solid block of clay the good soil only acts like a sponge soaking up so much water then you have a swamp still... (actually more like a BOG than a SWAMP) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

getting some drainange tile in is what you should think about if you get LOTS of water and have LOTS OF CLAY. otherwise build a POND which will actually dry out the land a good bit to.

anyhow the above stuff is only form someone who has not real interest in much of anything tonight and is too tired to post much more /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SPIKER

Egon · May 28, 2005

Sounds just like what Bird did for his garden worked well and was inexpensive. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mayhaps he just may know what's it all about.

Egon