American-made Grade 70 Chain & Binders???

[LarryRB]

I always walked in and had no problem even if not buying for the town. What you do is go there, ask for Henry, Tell Henry lot's of tractor guys on the tractor net are watching this outcome.. Then tell him this,, and I am serious,, the nephew of the pepperidge farm man sent you.,

 

[Dougster]

I always walked in and had no problem even if not buying for the town. What you do is go there, ask for Henry, Tell Henry lot's of tractor guys on the tractor net are watching this outcome. Then tell him this, and I am serious, the nephew of the pepperidge farm man sent you.

Oh Lordy Lordy! Why didn't you tell me to use the secret handshake earlier?

While they were very nice on the phone, I did get the distinct impression that they cater to the more lucrative municipal & business markets... the folks with house accounts & purchase orders, not cash & credit cards. Small-time retail is clearly not their thing. There is no "store" or catalog. I asked for a few sample prices and they would not give them to me. They essentially said to come in with my shopping list, they would pull it all together and I would pay their price. Kinda risky since I'm seeing prices from others all over the map.

We'll see if it's any different in person. And with the secret handshake, of course!

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I always walked in and had no problem even if not buying for the town. What you do is go there, ask for Henry, Tell Henry lot's of tractor guys on the tractor net are watching this outcome. Then tell him this, and I am serious, the nephew of the pepperidge farm man sent you.

Finally made it up to St. Pierre yesterday as well as B-B/Chappell. Learned an awful lot yesterday... my brain still hurts... but came away with more information and questions than actual hardware.

Henry was not around at St. Pierre, so I dealt with Mike. As expected, St. Pierre (in Worcester, MA) was a true, industrial-grade supplier of cable and chain with most... if not all... components "Made in USA." They had quite a varied selection, although they would not sell me Gr. 70 chain by the foot... just pre-cut lengths with hooks. Contrary to what I said earlier, they will take plastic and have a little mini-store of sorts... more of a display area actually. Nothing is price marked. You have to ask on everything. It's a place to go when you know exactly what you want, the price you are willing to pay... and even pre-order by phone if possible.

B-B/Chappell (in Milford, NH) is completely different. They are more retail friendly. They also sell chain by the foot. They have both American and Chinese products side-by-side and, for obviously reasons, cater to equipment owners and the equipment transport market. They also had an amazing selection of products and a very helpful sales force.

Oddly, both places recommended that I stick with nylon straps for all of my tractor/implement transport needs... B-B far more pushy on this point than St. Pierre. Very strange when you consider that I went to both places specifically looking for Gr. 70 chain replacements for my fraying nylon straps. Also odd... while B-B recommended their American-made chain, they recommended the Chinese-made binders... which they said accounted for ~90% of binder sales. Unique at B-B, they had a Chinese-made binder specifically made & rated for 3/8 inch Gr. 70 chain... no need to buy a combo binder made for both 1/2 inch Gr. 43 and 3/8 inch Gr. 70. Too bad it was Chinese.

Costs of 5/16 inch pre-assembled lengths (USA materials) were about the same at both places. Costs of 3/8 inch lengths were somewhat cheaper at St. Pierre.

There's now a lot more research and rechecking for me to do after listening to the sales folks at B-B expound on Federal law and MA/NH interpretations & enforcement of same. Didn't leave me at all comfortable with my proposed tiedown plan or my own interpretation of Federal law. In the end, I will likely be buying my chain from St. Pierre... closer and cheaper for 100% American-made 3/8 inch... but will be buying my USA-made binders on-line. On-line has a particular style I like from an American manufacturer at a price nearly as low as B-B's Chinese binders. Works for me!

Dougster

 

[MadReferee]

Also odd... while B-B recommended their American-made chain, they recommended the Chinese-made binders... which they said accounted for ~90% of binder sales. Unique at B-B, they had a Chinese-made binder specifically made & rated for 3/8 inch Gr. 70 chain... no need to buy a combo binder made for both 1/2 inch Gr. 43 and 3/8 inch Gr. 70. Too bad it was Chinese.

I found that odd too. There must be a reason why all the equipment haulers are using the chinese binders. I guess the haulers know more than us yuppie CUT owners do.

 

[pekabu]

Hi Dougster. Very interesting reading. I am really interested in what your final setup is. Can you expound a bit on what the reasons for going with nylon vs chain from the dealer? I don't move my stuff much, and I don't do it for a living so it would be most helpful.

Thanks
Dave

 

[Dougster]

I found that odd too. There must be a reason why all the equipment haulers are using the chinese binders. I guess the haulers know more than us yuppie CUT owners do.

Well, clearly they were a lot cheaper... and I do have to admit that 3/8 inch Grade 70 (Specific)-rated binder was quite slick. Less chance of chain coming loose out of an oversized (1/2 inch) hook... smaller in size/weight... and still rated 6,600 lbs (exactly the same as the chain). If it was USA-made, I would have bought some.

Probably anything markedly cheaper is going to sell more... even in New Hampshire! It's not a big deal on the US vs. Chinese chain (which is quite reasonably priced... cheaper than Tractor Supply!!!). But on the binders, the double-the-price cost difference can add up fast.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

Hi Dougster. Very interesting reading. I am really interested in what your final setup is. Can you expound a bit on what the reasons for going with nylon vs chain from the dealer? I don't move my stuff much, and I don't do it for a living so it would be most helpful.
Thanks
Dave

Well, you may laugh at this, but they simply thought they were faster, more user friendly, better suited to my tractor & trailer and would not scratch up the tractor. I kid you not. This is apparently a top concern among the buyers of shiny new, expensive tractors from upstairs! Then again, can you blame them?

They also insisted that they were perfectly legal and safe for my particular tractor... although this is where we started to part ways on certain fine details... interpretations of Federal law, load calculations, effects of fraying, prudent practices and variations in legal enforcement. This is where engineers start to have a hard time dealing with sales folks, no matter how polite, well-intended and even well-trained.

The bottom line was that I already owned nylon and went there to obtain something significantly stronger and less likely to get me in trouble with the law. There really was no point in me driving home with the very same straps that were already hanging up in my garage.

Dougster

 

[shaley]

Hey Doug, I've noticed that every time I use a chain-only and lever binder tie down method it ends up being loose at the end of the haul. I noticed when I use a nylon strap it adds some spring tension to the binding loop and everthing stays tight. I'm like you and wanted to streamline the tie-down process. It's always a pain with the BH to find tie-down point so I welded a weld-on D ring to the BH frame under the swing pin and just run a chain loop through the ring and use a single binder. Nylon goes up front.

 

[Dougster]

Hey Doug, I've noticed that every time I use a chain-only and lever binder tie down method it ends up being loose at the end of the haul. I noticed when I use a nylon strap it adds some spring tension to the binding loop and everthing stays tight. I'm like you and wanted to streamline the tie-down process. It's always a pain with the BH to find tie-down point so I welded a weld-on D ring to the BH frame under the swing pin and just run a chain loop through the ring and use a single binder. Nylon goes up front.

Yeah, there is no question that chains and binders need to be rechecked and tightened more often than nylon during a long trip. That's supposedly one of the big selling points of ratchet binders... slower initial set-up but faster subsequent retightening. Alternatively, I suppose you could pay more and get a spring-lever binder. Hard to find in smaller sizes, but that could help.

One of the things I was told at B-B is that I need to lay my backhoe bucket down on the trailer deck and tie it down in that (lowered) position to be fully legal. I have never done that before. I always left it boom up, centered and mechanically latched. I was only going to chain it in that up position (i.e., so it could not move side-to-side) to comply with the trooper's instructions... but the folks at B-B said that would not be enough.

Alternatively, they said I could weld a D-ring onto the trailer near the back and slip a tooth firmly into the ring. Neat idea. Gawd, I wish I could weld.

Dougster

 

[MadReferee]

Alternatively, they said I could weld a D-ring onto the trailer near the back and slip a tooth firmly into the ring. Neat idea. Gawd, I wish I could weld.

I'm only 10 minutes from Chappell. Bring it over, and a 6-pack too. Light/Lite brands not appreciated.