Amsoil or Permatran

[5030]

333 fluid? Never heard of it.

I probably should have put it another way... If it costs less than 45 bucks a pail, it's junk. Hows that. Actually, it wan't junk 30 years ago but requirements have changed and chemistry has improved.

 

[WilliamBos]

Many high quality tractor hydraulic oils have higher shear strength than any GL oil. Exactly why you do not see GL oils lubricating high horsepower tractor power trains. Changing hydraulic or front axle oils at 50 hours is a complete waste of oil and money.

I agree, we found this out first hand when we drained the front axle lube on our 1635. No need at 50 hours.

 

[ray66v]

Well, we are all allowed our own opinion of course... The waste of oil/money by doing a first change at 50hrs??? I can't disagree more, my opinion of course. For sure the lube isn't broken down, but.....it's contaminated quite severely with initial break-in metal particles. Not a good idea to have those floating around and through expensive pumps/gears, if I might say so. End of argument, no other opinion allowed, well, unless its in a leased machine and its going to be returned for a new unit soon. Poor pity the next owner....

You are right it's not a good idea to have those floating around, and that's why the manufacturers design these tractors with a sump at the bottom for any debris to collect in, a fine screen on the oil pick up to keep them there, and a big expensive canister filter that traps even microscopic particles that may get past those. The metal can't float around, and it can't circulate through the gears, or the pumps.

Unless the whole thing is junk, there simply isn't going to be significant break in wear debris created in just 50 hours of use.

The filtration system is more than adequate to handle any debris created from normal wear. Otherwise, they could not recommend a substantially longer normal interval of 250-300 hours to between oil changes.

So why did they ever require a 50 hour dump?

Years gone by, it was a cheap insurance policy. Flush the sump out, in case of excessive debris left inside during the build.

Modern ISO manufacturing standards, and experience has shown it is not necessary.

And, the high cost of synthetic transmission oil, makes it even more of a waste.

So, they are getting away from it.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Well, we are all allowed our own opinion of course... The waste of oil/money by doing a first change at 50hrs??? I can't disagree more, my opinion of course. For sure the lube isn't broken down, but.....it's contaminated quite severely with initial break-in metal particles. Not a good idea to have those floating around and through expensive pumps/gears, if I might say so. End of argument, no other opinion allowed, well, unless its in a leased machine and its going to be returned for a new unit soon. Poor pity the next owner....

Disclaimer here. I sell AMSOIL in my spare time and currently, AMSOIL has a promotion for free shipping (until the end of May)if the order is over $100. I'm in Canada so I'm not quite sure what the USA offer is, but here's a link if anyone is interested.

Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil SAE 5W-3 ATH - AMSOIL

It isn't the easiest lube to sell due to the initial cost, but once a customer installs it and sees the difference during extreme temps (especially cold) they couldn't be happier, my experience. Dutchy

I change all fluids in everything I purchased the day I bring the equipment home. It's NOT about the degradation of the oil it's about FLUSHING the system from being machined of the sand cast.

I change the rear end fluid on a new Duramax 350 dually under 1,000 miles and the fluid came out like smelly white milk. To this day I don't know what that stuff was but I'm glad I dumped it out.

Another thing, my equipment runs much better, quieter, cooler, smoother when I dump whatever they put in it at the factory.

Look at it this way, do you think manufacturers are putting in the best fluids when they build these things. If they can save $25.00 in fluid costs by putting in generic bottom line fluids and they sell three million vehicles, they just put 75 MILLION dollars to their bottom line.

Been doing this for 50 plus years in everything from bobtail trucks, tractors, off-road equipment, cars, boats, whatever takes oil and have never ever had an oil-related engine problem. Never ever had an engine go down on me because of lubrication.

 

[WilliamBos]

Is the new 821 XL Permatran a synthetic hydraulic oil? Is it really any better than NAPA's best (listed as equal to Permatran on their jug) and adding some Lucas booster?

We use Shell S4 TXM, no issues at all. Hydraulics warm up faster in the winter too.

 

[GeneV]

I got Amsoil sitting in a case in my garage now, waiting to do the hydro/axle service before the winter.

 

[6sunset6]

It's time for a 600 hr oil change in my tractor transmission. I am think about switched to a synthetic meeting specs for original oil that was dino. Not every oz will drain , of course , and the cylinders and implements will never drain. Does it matter if there is some mixing?

 

[Robin Veerman]

It's time for a 600 hr oil change in my tractor transmission. I am think about switched to a synthetic meeting specs for original oil that was dino. Not every oz will drain , of course , and the cylinders and implements will never drain. Does it matter if there is some mixing?

Check out the AMSOIL link in post #24 above. If you open it up you can read that it is compatible with other similar fluids. Most fluids are compatible with like/similar fluids or you would never be able to switch brands without a complete flush. However, brand mixing could compromise a premium fluid if an inferior fluid were mixed with it. Just like you wouldn't want to top off your coffee with a sour cream after running out of sweet cream.... yuk. Dutchy