An automobile for rural life.....

DaRube · Oct 24, 2001

My '87 Toyota died after 132K miles. I lived in the suburbs when I bought it. I haven't purchased a new car in 14 years so I have some learning to do. As some of you may know, I just moved to Ruralia 2 months ago...and purchased a new tractor. So replacing the car was something I had hoped to put off for at least another year or two. But life doesn't wait for convenience.....

Anyway, I anticipate that this next vehicle will have to be the "country beast"! It will need 4wd for the occasional snow and I will also need the ability to transport (or tow) a certain amount of tools, supplies, etc. But it is also going to be my daily vehicle (35 mi commute each way) and therefore cannot be totally a farm vehicle either. And it can't break the bank, since my wife's '88 Nissan has 150K on it. We will eventually replace hers with a minivan.

So my situation is....10 acres in Northern Virginia. 1.5 mi of moderately flat dirt road to the nearest paved road. I would like to buy this vehicle new and then keep it "forever".

Obviously, an auto purchase is a rather personal...not to mention expensive...experience. But I think you folks may be able to help me gear up for the PROCESS. I'd love to hear your opinions on what FEATURES you find important for a mixed use vehicle. Also, what RESOURCES might come in handy in deciding which model to buy. And of course, any conventional folk wisdom would be appreciated as well.

There seem to be a ton of services available to help in the shopping / pricing / purchasing arena. It is the steps before that which seem rather murky at the moment.

Thanks in advance!

Hillbilly · Oct 25, 2001

Check this site out: http://www.bvlandrovers.com/

fractal · Oct 25, 2001

I bought a subaru when they first came out. Great little car and the all wheel drive was a godsend for a crazy grad student who liked to drive places you shouldn't. I used to love to drive fireroads in our state parks with a car load of friends at a 20 degree slope looking (what felt like straight) down at a canyon through the window. It was 120 outside but the ac kept it comfortable inside and the 4wd kept the car on the road. A couple of years ago I was talking to the cousins in georga and one mentioned that during the blizzard a few yrs back, one guy had a subaru and he was the only one able to get hay back into the horses. Seems that people cut their roads so trucks would fit under branches just fine, but didn't account for several feet of snow. Guy was very popular and made a fortune hauling hay to back pastures. Bigger is not always better.

Subaru's get decent gas milage, the wagons like I had can carry a reasonable amount of stuff and they are reasonably comfortable. Towing may be another story. I considered buying another one but I don't fit the new ones. Maybe I grew, maybe they shrunk, maybe I am pickier, but at 6'2, 220# I don't fit a modern subaru.

The subaru was the only non-american vehicle I ever owned and if it weren't so unique, I probably wouldn't have considered it. Every vehicle before, and after it, have been american. Call me a snob, but I only buy detroit junk. It may be a crappier car than them foreign beasts, but at least the money stays in america. Not like the UA plant there in fremont that makes chevy's and toyotas on the same line. chevy america pays 500 bucks for the same engine that toyota america pays 2000 for. toyota america makes no profit on that car so pays no taxes. Yeah, americans worked on the car, but all the profits left the country 'tax free'. No thank you. I see from your post that this doesn't fit you (two foreign vehicles) but that is how I feel. No american manufacturer made a compact vehicle with all wheel drive when I was shopping at that time, so I bought the subaru. It might be something to consider for someone who doesn't insist on buying american.

You probably have figured out that you trade gas milage for weight. Several people in addition to subaru now make smaller AWD vehicles. You might want to consider one if it is your primary "high milage" vehicle. Volvo looks promising..

I am sure others will give you a feel for trucks and suv's, their benefits and their costs. My truck is an old chevy s10 that I use around the place and for erands that need a truck. It is a "third vehicle" and is rarely driven. If I had to replace it, I would be looking at at least a 3/4 ton, and probably a 1 ton truck. The sales critters will point to the bumper hitch where it says "5500 pounds" on the half tonners, but do you really want your tractor plus trailer behind a half ton truck? I sure don't. I looked at the 1 ton stretch cab with full size bed and 30k for a new truck that gets horrible gas milage was not something that fit my needs for a third vehicle or my needs for a primary vehicle.

The last thing I will bring up is your family needs. I have 3 kids, and love all three. I won't put any of them in a seat with a "belt only". If a vehicle only has two harneses and a belt, do YOU really want to decide which dies if someone hits you? They are all young enough that they can't ride in the front seat due to air bags. If what you are driving is going to be a "primary vehicle" meaning the wife drives it when hers is in the shop, then you need to seriously consider where everyone is gonna sit when she drives you to work. I solved that problem buying a car with 3 harnesses in back and by having a third vehicle that I can drive to work.

Finally, for resources... I spent a fair amount of time on www.edmunds.com before I bought my last car.

njrqs · Oct 25, 2001

Replace it with another Toyota, that's what you should do.

Here in OZ, I have a Toyota Hilux, which I think you call a Tacoma? It is a dual cab ute, so you can keep family and good things clean in the front, and all the dirty farm gear in the back.

Suits me great.

I'll attach a pic and see if you recognise it as a Tacoma?

Cheers

Neil from OZ.

MikePA · Oct 25, 2001

I agree with Neil, extended cab pickups are the way to go with kids, plus having storage inside the cab is a great convenience. Having a pickup bed means you can haul all kinds of stuff, e.g., stone, mulch, hay, feed that you can not in a suv plus it gives you an option for what kind of hitch to use (GN, BP or 5th wheel) should you want to tow in the future.

I have a 1991 Chevy K1500 Extended Cab pickup with the 350 V8 and 110,000 miles on it. The back seat is a bench seat and there are 3 seat belts, with the outside positions having shoulder harnesses, just like in most cars. The Chevy S10 I owned before the K1500 was also an extended cab, however the back seats were 2 jump seats that folded down from each side and only had lap belts, which I didn't care for. So if you look at a mid-size/small extended cab truck be sure to notice what kind of seats are in the back.

BTW, Neil, is that a snorkel on your truck?

ejb · Oct 25, 2001

I agree with the others, an extended cab pickup. I have a Ford SuperDuty F250 with the extended cab (not crew cab) and I can fit my whole family of 5 in it (plus the dog if need be) without any problems (no, not in the bed of the truck, there are six seatbelts). Its good to have a 4WD pickup and also good to be able to use it as backup to your primary family car when necessary.

SUprised you only got 137K miles on your toyota, usually the last forever like Hondas. My wifes first car we sold to my sister with 150K on it and she put about another 100K on it before it finally died.

If your familiy is small, and you don't need a huge truck like mine, I really like the Toyota 4x4 pickups.Great little vehicles. I had two before this Ford.

Good luck.

WVBill · Oct 25, 2001

DaRube:
We had almost exactly your situation when we moved out to WV from Fairfax three years ago. I had a Ford van and my wife had a Saturn.
She was un-nerved too many times out here on the roads by coming over a rise and finding herself nearly face-to-face with somebody's farm truck. - so she needed to "get bigger".

We bought her a 4WD Dodge Dakota which she loved. Later, when the van died, we got a Dodge Ram 1500 4WD for me. It has the truck bed for the weekly run to Home Depot, towing capacity for anything I will ever need to tow (pulled the Kubota on trailer back from California), 4WD for the occasional snow around here, and the extended cab so I can get the kids or grandkids in the back and I commute 48 miles each way on 7 and the Greenway with the last 3/4 mile to home gravel road. The 4WD 1500 has been the perfect compromise between capacity, comfort and "economy" (I get in the neighborhood of 14 - 15 mpg).

This year when the grandkids got a little older and my wife started needing to take them places, her Dakota just couldn't handle it because it did not have the extended cab. So we bought her a 4WD Dodge Durango. That's turned out to be a good "people hauler" and has pretty good towing capacity too.

When you get ready to buy. If you go for Dodge, check out Clarke Motors on Route 7 just this side of Winchester. See Dana Turner. They were very fair with us on our Dakota and Durango. I ended up buying the Ram through Thomassen's in Charles Town because they could give me a better price. Dana understood the decision and I ended up back with him on the Durango.

The process I used was to research, mainly by using www.edmunds.com. Compare features and prices. Decide on options packages then configure your vehicle. I used autobytel.com to get a quote from Thomassen's for the Ram. I was specific on the options I wanted and didn't budge when they wanted to upsell me on something because that's what they had on the lot. If you do your shopping in the Winter or Spring, you can order the vehicle configured exactly as you want it. I spent only about 30 minutes on the phone and less than 10 minutes in the dealership when I bought the RAM. A VERY pleasant car buying experience.

Best of luck.

Boondox · Oct 25, 2001

I see a lot of trucks mentioned in other posts, and while I'd love to have another truck, let's face it -- they tend to be gas hogs and they drive like...trucks. Also, I got tired of the part time 4WD game, trying to stay in 2WD as long as possible for better milage, etc. We tried the SUV route for a spell, and though my four dogs loved it, it had the same shortcomings as the truck.

Now we drive a Subaru Outback wagon. It actually has more square footage (NOT cubic footage) in back for the dogs, hay bales, lumber, etc, than the old Pathfinder, gets 10mpg more, handles better, and never loses traction. In fact, that's why we first looked at Subarus. We live in mud and snow country, and over the years I've pulled a lot of trucks and SUVs out of ditches. Never once have we had to rescue a Subaru! The shortcomings are (1) you can't just hose out the back like a truck, and (2) towing capacity is limited. It's a heavy car by import standards, and is pretty safe. It even has shoulder belts in the back seat for the kids. Worth a test drive.

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

cowboydoc · Oct 25, 2001

What are you looking for? What's most important to you? gas mileage, hauling, etc.

heehaw · Oct 25, 2001

a toyota died after only 132k miles?? that seems to be unusual.
heehaw

TerryinMD · Oct 25, 2001

DaRube,

I bought a Ram 1500 1/2 ton 4wd Extended Cab two years ago. It is the vehicle of choice in our family for all weekend activites. I have yet to tow anything so I can't comment on that. However, a neighbor of mine bought a the 2500 extended and he pulls a 24 ft camping trailer with no problem. He took it on a trip to Taledega this past summer and averaged 15 mile to the gal cruising at 70 mph. That's pretty darn good.

Another thing to consider is to join your local Farm Bureau. It will snatch you a $500 rebate on most new Dodge vehicles. Missed using it on my Ram, but just bought a Dodge Stratus and used it against that purchase. Payed for half the taxes!! Another option is to go through Sams Club. That's what we did and it saved us about $4k off of the sticker price.

In fact, I saw 3 Ram 2500's Turbodiesels this weekend at the Dodge dealer in Martinsburg. They are located on Queen St between Rt 45 and Quality Farm and Fleet. Check them out.

Good luck.

Terry

P.S. - I had to get a new car after having to dump tons of money into a 91 Mecury Topaz with 180k+ miles. Still running, but not a car for 100 mile round trip commuting.Edited by TerryinMD on 10/25/01 08:39 AM (server time).

Bird · Oct 25, 2001

It seems like we don't see a lot of Subarus in my part of the country, but sure did see a lot of them in Alaska. And my sister-in-law in Virginia sure is fond of her Outback wagon. I've never driven one of the newer ones, but from what I've seen and heard from owners, I'd sure give it serious consideration.

Bird

fishman · Oct 25, 2001

DaRube,
You ask about features on vehicles that others particularly like or looked for, so here goes.

One feature I especially like about my Chevy Z-71 is the Autotrac four wheel drive. It's push button and gives you two choices: Full time 4 wheel like a truck, or part-time 4 wheel, where the 4 wheel drive only engages when needed. The benefits of this system is real 4 wheel (high & low) when you need it, or part-time 4-wheel, where you can run on pavement with intermittent snow patches without fear of harming your drive train. I use my autotrac all of the time whenever I think I might need 4 wheel, and don't have to worry about a thing. It's also much easier for novice truck users to put it in 4-wheel. Well worth the additional $500 price tag, in my opinion, even though at first I was skeptical.

It's tough to beat a truck or SUV for towing. I have towed with cars and minivans, but in my opinion most should be reserved for trailers weighing less than 2000 lbs, even though they may be rated higher (I may catch some flak for this/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif).

As far as resources, I would look at http://www.edmunds.com for general information and up-to-date rebate and incentive info. Find the dealer invoice cost and add 3% to get your target price. Any incentives should be over and above this price. So in the current market, I would expect to pay less for the vehicle than dealer invoice. Don't forget the *-#%^ advertising and paperwork fees, which could add as much as $800 to the cost of the vehicle.

Another way that I saved some money on my truck was obtaining a GM credit card. 5% of every purchase goes in your "account" to be used as a rebate over and above any other incentives on GM vehicles. I found it to work exactly as advertised, but it does limit your vehicle selection to GM products.

njrqs · Oct 25, 2001

Yes Mike that is a snorkel.

It is so I can do silly things like this !!!

Neil from OZ.

Bird · Oct 25, 2001

so I can do silly things

Yep, I'd say that describes it pretty well./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

MikePA · Oct 25, 2001

Way kewl! /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

RobertN · Oct 25, 2001

Is there any Aussie made trucks? Holden and Ford make various Utes, but do any of the manufacturers build full blown pickup trucks in Australia?

I'd like to get an 71-71 Ford GT with 351 Cleveland, 4spd imported here to the States. They look cool, and from what I understand, really run! Just that money thing gets in the way /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

njrqs · Oct 25, 2001

Robert Robert Robert

You just happen to be talking to a Ford fanatic from way back !! No, we don't make "pickups", just the utes you refer to. We import all other utes, and have only just started bringing in the Ford F series again to sell in the mainstream market. A few people are now bringing in Chevs and the like because of the lack of an Aussie pickup. I have the dual cab hilux (4cyl diesel) because there are no 6 cyl larger dual cabs here.

Re the GT. An original GT is worth a fair bit. Probably around $10000 Aus for a good one. 1971 would be an XY. I was an XA man - 1972-1973 etc. A 1971 GTHO is priceless - Up to $100,000. Many GT copies around for a lot less.

I had an XA ute - GT copy with the 351. 4 speed, 9" LSD etc.

No photos as this was well before my digital camera (read family) days !

Just wire me $5000 US and I'll go find one for you !!

Let me know if you need more specific details as I have some books lying around I think.

PS - Currently drive a 2000 Ford Falcon - Not a muscle car, but the 4litre 6 cyl really goes. Photo attached.

Cheers

Neil from OZ.

DennisY · Oct 25, 2001

Here's my "2 cents worth" I think that the 4x4 extended cab pickups are about the most versitile vehicles available today. The back seat is small for adults but you can get by in a pinch for a relatively short ride. There is plenty of room for kids. That plus good towing capability (pick out the right engine/tranny/rear axle combination) gets you close to a "do anything" machine. Their downside is fair to poor fuel economy and a rather steep price tag.

Bird · Oct 25, 2001

2000 Ford Falcon? I've forgotten which year the "Falcon" name disappeared in the US. It's hard to tell size from a picture, but is that anything like the US Focus (which replaced the Escort)?

Bird