Another confused first timer

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

A lot of people won't buy used. I don't understand why. I don't understand why a newby wouldn't prefer a tractor with a track record as a proven performer over a new machine with a warranty covering unknown problems.

I'm thinking the reason must be some sort of social and generational thing, it makes no mechanical sense that I can see.

Tractors are still designed to last pretty much unchanged about 5x as long as most people own them - and that's being conservative. 5000 hrs versus 1000. Or at least they have been designed that way traditionally. After any warranty issues, you do routine maintenance and your tractor works the same for thousands of hours.

Maybe somebody will explain it to me. I truly don't understand the logic. Plus, it saves money!

rScotty

Scotty I can answer this. For starters most first time buyers don't even know what kind of tractor and equipment they need to tackle the tasks they have at hand. Look at how many thousands of threads have been created on this site over the years asking all the same questions. Heck go back to post #1 of this thread. It's pretty much all the same questions but the context and nuances of the properties are what varies from person to person.

Used late model tractor prices are high and have been high for quite some time. Why would a buyer want to pay almost as much for a used tractor with no warranty and have to pay it in cash when he can easily go finance it for 5, 6 or 7 years at a dealership at a low interest rate (there is no such thing as zero percent) and have a 6 year warranty?

Then there is the issues of parts and repair for tractors not being the same as automobiles. A lot of towns out here don't have access to third party repair shops for tractors and implements. So if you have nothing but the local dealer to take it to then you are talking about potentially long turn around times and uncontrollable costs and down time that you have to deal with.

 

[rScotty]

Scotty I can answer this. For starters most first time buyers don't even know what kind of tractor and equipment they need to tackle the tasks they have at hand. Look at how many thousands of threads have been created on this site over the years asking all the same questions. Heck go back to post #1 of this thread. It's pretty much all the same questions but the context and nuances of the properties are what varies from person to person.

Used late model tractor prices are high and have been high for quite some time. Why would a buyer want to pay almost as much for a used tractor with no warranty and have to pay it in cash when he can easily go finance it for 5, 6 or 7 years at a dealership at a low interest rate (there is no such thing as zero percent) and have a 6 year warranty?

Then there is the issues of parts and repair for tractors not being the same as automobiles. A lot of towns out here don't have access to third party repair shops for tractors and implements. So if you have nothing but the local dealer to take it to then you are talking about potentially long turn around times and uncontrollable costs and down time that you have to deal with.

Thanks for the insight. What I glean from what you say is that new buyers tend to buy new tractors over used because they don't really understand tractors.
Is that fair?

People fear repairs, and rightly so. But an important point that people new to tractors often miss is that serious repairs are very rare with tractors. So newcomers start by focusing on the wrong thing - but of course being new to tractors they don't know that.

Tractor warranties are there to correct mistakes in manufacturing - which are rare, too. Once a tractor is a proven performer it operates the same way for a very long time. Often for decades.

That is why good used ones are expensive. Close to new price, in fact. No reason they shouldn't be.
Tractors tend to be overbuilt using proven technology.
If anything, a low hour used tractor is arguably better than new since it is now a proven performer.

But of course newcomers don't know that. So the problem becomes one of education. And of financing - but that's another subject entirely.

If we read back a few pages in this very thread, it's full of accounts by people who have owned their tractors for many years with only minor repairs if any. And not surprisingly, many of those were bought used.

Thanks,
rScotty

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

A lot of people won't buy used. I don't understand why. I don't understand why a newby wouldn't prefer a tractor with a track record as a proven performer over a new machine with a warranty covering unknown problems.

I'm thinking the reason must be some sort of social and generational thing, it makes no mechanical sense that I can see.

Tractors are still designed to last pretty much unchanged about 5x as long as most people own them - and that's being conservative. 5000 hrs versus 1000. Or at least they have been designed that way traditionally. After any warranty issues, you do routine maintenance and your tractor works the same for thousands of hours.

Maybe somebody will explain it to me. I truly don't understand the logic. Plus, it saves money!

rScotty

I can break it down as far as I was concerned.

I had no intention of paying as much, or MORE for a used tractor vs. a brand new one. A lot of people do this. I don't understand why. Used is used. In ANY other equipment or vehicle purchase, traditionally used pieces are significantly cheaper. The older and "more used" the bigger the cost savings vs. new. Lawn mowers, weed whackers, pressure washers, generators, chain saws, just about any other type of equipment you can think of, there is a discount in price (and it's usually significant savings) when you purchased a good, clean used one. Not tractors.

Now at this unusual instance in time, used vehicles seem to be collecting a premium price vs. even a few years ago, so for right now, the used vehicle market is a bit skewed. But traditionally, vehicles in general (unless you had something "special") saw a significant price drop in the first few years of ownership. Someone could buy used and get a significant savings over new price, and that would help offset the RISK of buying used, and offset not having a warranty that would cover big ticket stuff like a failed trans or engine.

But somehow, "magically" as soon as you say "tractor", we're all (potential buyers) supposed to be ok with paying as much, or more for a used tractor than a new one. When I was out tractor shopping 4 years ago, the ONLY used tractors I saw were either nearly destroyed garbage, OR they were asking for the same money or MORE money than a new one. Now for me, I wasn't interested in garbage. I know some people even like garbage tractors, even proudly post pictures of them here on TBN. That's fine. Really. Wasn't what I was particularly looking for, so not an option when I was a buyer. I also wanted "modern" features like a heated cab, FEL, 4x4, etc, that you don't see on used garbage.

4 years ago was "B.C." (before covid), so that can't be used as a market excuse for unnaturally high prices on used tractors. I saw ads for several tractors that appeared to be good, clean, used tractors. Guess what? They wanted as much or MORE for their used one, than the equivalent model sitting new at the dealer. That's always going to be a "nope" in my book. Always.

New means I don't have to worry about what some total idiot may have done while abusing their machine. And yes, there are some brain dead idiots out there in the world. Some of them own tractors. Go watch some "tractor fail" type videos on Youtube. You'll be thinking, "I don't want to buy anything from that idiot". I also don't have to worry about ANY breakdowns for a while ("bumper to bumper"), or worry about power train issues in the first 4-6 years due to power train warranty. And I've not said anything about the financing, as for me it didn't matter if I could finance a new one at 0%. Didn't really factor into my decision to buy new, but it's an option for many to be considered.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Thanks for the insight. What I glean from what you say is that new buyers tend to buy new tractors over used because they don't really understand tractors.
Is that fair?

Exactly.

People fear repairs, and rightly so. But an important point that people new to tractors often miss is that serious repairs are very rare with tractors. So newcomers start by focusing on the wrong thing - but of course being new to tractors they don't know that.

Tractor warranties are there to correct mistakes in manufacturing - which are rare, too. Once a tractor is a proven performer it operates the same way for a very long time. Often for decades.

It depends on the brand of tractor. Based on reports from members of this forum, it's not so rare for there to be defects in manufacturing with South Korean tractors.

And of financing - but that's another subject entirely.

Yes but it's a major factor in the buying decision.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

New means I don't have to worry about what some total idiot may have done while abusing their machine.

That was another point I didn't even mention. Buying used equipment is nothing like buying used cars because you have no idea how that piece of equipment was used. There are infinite number of use types and variables that could play into the wear life of a piece of equipment that you just don't see in the car world.

 

[rScotty]

I can break it down as far as I was concerned.

I had no intention of paying as much, or MORE for a used tractor vs. a brand new one. A lot of people do this. I don't understand why...... SNIP .....

Well, every tirade does help me to understand a little better. As Cahaba Valley Farm says, it's a matter of education.

One stumbling block is financing - dealers make it easy... maybe too easy.
The other problem is that used tractors are different from other used things. But having no experience, the newcomer doesn't know that.

Many people have written how surprised, shocked, and even offended they are when they find that good used tractors cost as much as new ones and sometimes more. As an old timer with tractors, I can assure you that this pricing isn't something new, it's always been so.

When something - like used tractor prices - doesn't meet expectations, it's a good time to ask why.
You may not like the answer, but then that's the problem with education.
rScotty

 

[Hoodoo]

rScotty - I can explain at least from my own point of view as a newbie. In my area, there are very few used tractors for sale. And they are priced very high. I see no sense in the idea of buying someone else's problems (potentially) for almost the same $$ as a new tractor with a warranty from a dealer I can walk into and complain if I need to. Just makes absolutely ZERO sense to me. Has nothing to do with my obvious lack of knowledge regarding tractors....if I were an old tractor guy like y'all, I would still go this route. The used tractor would have to be less than half the price for me to even consider a move like this.....
I'm a long-time business person and used to doing things that make financial sense.

 

[rScotty]

Yes, I've been on this forum and others for some 20+ years now, and your explanation is not at all uncommon. Quite the opposite. I've heard it expressed a lot of times - in fact, almost every time someone is looking at tractors for the first time.

Initial reaction to the price of good used tractors ranges from disbelief all the way to anger. That's OK.
The "new is best" rationale not only supports tractor dealers and tractor development, but it paradoxically it prevents used prices from becoming even highter.

All I do in response is point to the used tractor market which has remained stable for many years - in spite of the high cost. That means there are a sufficiently large number of people who have decided that - in the tractor market, anyway - proven performance is worth more to them than a warranty.

Not that tractors are unique. There are other areas with similar values. Where I live we've recently seen old houses sell for more than the cost of new construction.
rScotty

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Well, every tirade does help me to understand a little better. As Cahaba Valley Farm says, it's a matter of education.

One stumbling block is financing - dealers make it easy... maybe too easy.
The other problem is that used tractors are different from other used things. But having no experience, the newcomer doesn't know that.

Many people have written how surprised, shocked, and even offended they are when they find that good used tractors cost as much as new ones and sometimes more. As an old timer with tractors, I can assure you that this pricing isn't something new, it's always been so.

When something - like used tractor prices - doesn't meet expectations, it's a good time to ask why.
You may not like the answer, but then that's the problem with education.
rScotty

Education?

How incredibly condescending of you.

It's strictly economics.

A "thing" is only worth as much money as you can get someone else to pay you for it. If you get no takers at your "educated price", then the "thing" is clearly not worth what you think it is.

I'm sure sooner or later, you will run into someone that will pay you what you "think" your "thing" is worth. It may take a while, but that's how it works. Some of the used tractors sat on ad here for months. I guess a bunch of people here needed your "education" to straighten them out?

You take 2 identical "things". One is brand new. The other is used. How many people do you honestly think will pay the same price for the used "thing", as they would for the new "thing"?

Just because you give that "thing" a name (tractor) does not change that ratio.

And the same situation does not seem to factor into Ag tractors. It only seems to be SCUTS, CUTS and small utility tractors that have this "magic aura" that makes the used ones somehow anointed with this magic pixie dust that keeps them at or above the price of a brand new one.

Ridiculous.

 

[Torvy]

The only ways I would buy used would be if there was a rational discount on price based on remaining useful life and I knew the previous owner well enough to know how they treated their equipment. Assuming that a used thing is functional and somehow has proven performance is anecdotal at best and more mythical than anything else. Some used things are awesome, but some are available used because they had problems the previous owner no longer cared to handle.

I think the missing piece here is that those more willing to buy used are confident in their own mechanical ability to fix problems. It is a roll of the dice either way. If I buy new and it comes up snake eyes, I have recourse. If I buy used, I am out the purchase price. If this was a $100 tool, maybe you take that chance. At $30k+, not a chance.