Another driveway thread

/ Another driveway thread #1  

TigerfaninAR

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
379
Location
Central Arkansas
Tractor
Kubota B2320 FEL, MMM
After many years of planning and more recently construction, our new home is almost finished. Prior to building we had many truck loads of shale brought to make a drive for the concrete trucks etc. It has held up fairly well, have a few low spots but even after yesterdays all day rain I'm able to get down it fine. I think it has done a good job at making a base for our drive.

Now time for something the wife will call a driveway. Called the guys who did all the previous work, had a pond dug etc, and they recommend 10 loads of river rock at 300 per load and another 3000 for their labor. Our drive is about 275 ft long. Called a buddy of ours who hauls dirt/gravel and he says all I would need is 2-3 loads of something called c-ballast and then just have someone spread it, 500 dollars at most. So have one say 6000 and another is 1500. Wow, what a difference.

The hauler says the c-ballast will lock together and do much better than the river rock. Heck for 6000 I'm probably close to just putting asphalt down.
 
/ Another driveway thread #2  
We are about to build a house on our property and was quoted $6.500 for a 150ft gravel road. This to me is way two much. I have a B2920 with a backhoe and box scraper and feel I could do the grading and spreading the gravel. I look forward to what others have to say about your situation.
 
/ Another driveway thread #3  
Ah road work so fun, I just rebuilt an old logging entrance road on my property. Here are the steps and costs:

1.) Grade current road flat, bulldozer or tractor work
2.) put down 8 oz Geotextile fabric over grade, about $350 for 14x300 foot roll. keeps the rocks from sinking in the mud
3.) Put down # 4 rock with a spreader truck 16 tons for $400 each load. On 1200' I put down 7 loads. I went heavy on the #4 as I have logging trucks and large equipment moving up and down the road consistantly. You do not need this heavy for daily use.
4.) After 6 months add crusher run over the #4 stone, $380 each load with a spreader truck. The crusher run fills in the holes.

The number 4 stone is pretty serious and makes for a rougher but tough driveway. Some people use 57 stone instead of #4 then put crusher run over after 6 months again.

Steve
 
/ Another driveway thread #4  
River Rock??? Is that round and smooth? You don't want that. If your base is good, which it sounds like it is, you want crusher run. Fines up to 3/4" that will lock together. Before that, how is the grade and layout? Does water run off the drive now? Is the driveway material higher than the dirt next to the driveway. They have a crusher run that goes up to 2" that you can get to fix or fill any part of the driveway that's a problem now.

Any gravel truck driver should be able to spread gravel as he unloads. You might have to touch it up a little bit. I've done it myself... larger rock as a base, compact followed crusher run. I have not used the fabric... but I don't have much traffic on my driveway.

I had one area that was soft and would not firm up. Put down a fair amount of 2-4" rock, packed it down and covered with 2-3" of crusher run.
 
/ Another driveway thread
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Water runs off the drive except in one or two spots, more of a pothole. The drive is quite a bit higher than the surrounding land. The gravel hauler said he could get very close to having it spread with the truck but need the dozer to smooth beforehand.

Have not heard back from the 6000 dollar bid when I questioned the river rock and extent of the labor. Talked to another today and think at most 5 loads of the c-ballast. Not 10 loads of anything and definitely not 3000 dollars of dozer work.
 
/ Another driveway thread
  • Thread Starter
#6  
One quick question: does the gravel need to be compacted by a dozer, or something else, or just spread out?
 
/ Another driveway thread #7  
A couple of points. You can do this work with a Tractor, but if you have not built a road foundation it takes some time to get it right. That is why hiring a dozer may make sense for you. The key is that the roadbed is crowned, ie you have a higher center then the edges. Secondly you need to have ditches on the side. You stated that the drive is higher than the existing land. That is good but I imagine that the road is lower than the immediate area.

That is why ditches are key, the ditch should dump out to the lowest area on the drive. Once you have the "dirt" foundation then the geotextile goes down. This prevents the rock from being pushed into the dirt. Some guys do not like geotextile because when you do alot of snow plowing or grading after time the fabric shows through and gets ripped up. In the south this is not a problem.

The rock needs to be put down by a spreader truck. It does not need to be compacted. The rocks will as you drive over them over time lock into each other and form a firm roadbed.

The key is ditches, and road shape.
 
/ Another driveway thread #8  
You want the driveway to be perfect before the final layer of gravel is put down. Ideally, a compacted with a vibrating roller would be sweet... I've never done that...

When my gravel guy drops a load, he does a good job of packing down. Normally, I always have an extra load dropped off that I use to patch the driveway until the next time. This extra load delivered also compacts the freshly laid gravel.

After he's gone (and in between loads) I get a load of gravel in the bucket and some weight on the back of the tractor and pack/run over the middle of the road. This is the poor man's way... I'm happy with the results but I don't have a ton of traffic on my road.
 
/ Another driveway thread
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Thanks guys. This basically what my gravel guy said. I think the dozer man is trying to make up for a bad winter or something.
 
/ Another driveway thread #10  
...5 loads of the c-ballast...
Rock 4 Less serving Butte County (xxx) xxx-xxxx

Didn't know what C-ballast was so I found the site above (I do not work or recommend these guys, just a nice website). Description reads: "...This is a 1" crushed rock that is used for drain rock and also on gravel roads..." Personally, I would not use it for a road... "drain rock" sounds to me that it would allow water to get down into the road. That's not good.

I think this is what I use as my final top coat: 3/4" Class 2 Roadbase. "...It works great on gravel roads..." but it depends on if you can get it.

Edit, Another site:
http://www.rogersgroupinc.com/locationsandproducts/arkansas/glenrose.htm#products

Still doesn't sound like I would want to use it... go with 3/4" Minus or SB-2 State Grade
(again, don't know the company from Adam...)
 
/ Another driveway thread
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Yea I don't like the sound of that. Was told I have 3 choices: river rock, sb2, and c-ballast. This may be for the base and I have more options for a final topper, many here say crusher run. I've got about two weeks so more research ahead.
 
/ Another driveway thread #12  
I am not sure how your driveway really looks today, but tractor rates in Georgia for an experianced operator are 100 per hour. It took my dozer guy, (42 years of road building) 1000' 4 hours to get an existing but beat up road back in shape and install a new culvert. I would guess that you would have no more than 6-8 hours max of dozer time. Again it is hard to give advice without seeing but some rule of thumbs
 
/ Another driveway thread
  • Thread Starter
#13  
100 per hour is the going rate here as well. I estimated 4-6 hours after seeing them work it last year. That's 600, not 3000. I think they were planning on as they said " working it and shaping it" after gravel dump. The consensus here and elsewhere us that is not needed.
 
/ Another driveway thread #14  
I am not sure how your driveway really looks today...
Yea... let see some photos... SB-2 is what I would used. I don't care what it looks like, just want it to work well and hold up when it rains.
 
/ Another driveway thread #18  
Photos please. :D

If you have a tractor, box blade, and an open path for the road, you can do the job.

I built our driveway to our house which is about 500 feet from the road. I also maintain about 1/2 mile of gravel road. I also built a turning circle which is 60-80 feet around as well as a larger parking area behind the house as well as the driveway extension to connect. It has to be close to 1,000 feet 12 feed wide if laid end to end. All with fabric.

We have clay and our driveway winds up a hill and is in the woods. I made a mistake of trying to make the road bed smooth. This was a mistake because when have lots of rocks and along with the rocks is roots. Kinda hard to smooth that out. :D Only took a pass or two to figure out I was making work for myself. :laughing:

I put down geotextile fabric which was 12/12.5 feet wide and was a bit less than $1 per linear foot back in 2004ish time frame. The reason I was trying to get the driveway grade smooth was because of the fabric. Smoother the better.

In NC road base is called ABC which I THINK is what others call crush and run. Whatever it is called, you want the stuff that is used to build roads in your area. ABC is a mixture of fines, which is dust/sand, and stone up to maybe 2-3 inches in size. You want the fines since it locks the gravel together almost like cement.

If you put down something like 67 stone, which is just stone maybe 2-3 inches in size but no fines, that gravel will roll around and not compact/lock together.

After the fabric is laid out, the truck can back up and dump or spread the ABC. I had them dump and then I spread it with the FEL and box blade. You just have to be careful to NOT touch the fabric with the box blade or FEL. It likely would have been easier and faster if I just had the guy dump and spread.

We only put down 3-4 inches at most of ABC at first. The plan was to let the house get built and then we would add more ABC to fix up whatever mess the house construction did to the road. We have NOT put down more gravel because the fabric has kept the gravel from being pushed into the clay. We do need more ABC to raise up the driveway to keep water from running off but we always spend the money on something more important. :D

The problem with fabric is that you cannot regrade the road, but then again, you should not need too. We have had two pot holes over eight years which I have touched up with the box blade. If I would drop the gravel to raise a portion of the driveway above grade, the water would not get on the driveway and we would not have pot holes. The fabric has worked real well. I am sold on it since it has saved us time and money.

Find the closest, local quarry and call them up to ask for prices. Truck time in my area is $55-75 an hour depending on fuel prices a few years ago. The quarry will sell by the ton. ABC in NC wetted to DOT standards is around 3,000 pounds per yard. It has been years since I bought ABC but it was $10-12 a ton I think. Or to put it another way, it was not $20 a ton nor was it $5. :D

You almost certainly will want to use the closest quarry. The truck time will increase your gravel costs quite a bit. I am lucky in that the quarry is only about 15 minutes away and I could sometimes get over 2 loads per hour depending on how fast the truck could get out of the quarry.

The quarry will give the driver a piece of paper saying how much is truck weighed empty, with the load, and the difference which is your gravel. Get the paper from the driver. :D

The first part of the driveway took some time since I had to put in a culvert and build up the driveway. I think it took eight hours of truck time to build the culvert and go a couple hundred feet. I think I needed another 4-8 hours to get back the other 200-300 feet with a turning circle.

If you can crown the driveway for runoff that is a good thing.

You can do this. It is not hard. Well, the fabric can be a PITA if you catch it with the box blade or FEL but it is not hard to do. Frustrating perhaps. :D

Later,
Dan
 
/ Another driveway thread
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Just to update what I did. I went with the river rock but was up front with my budget and questioned the steep price of the dozer work. At the end of the day ended with 7 loads of rock at 235 a load, a French drain installed in another part of the propery, bad bricks and big pieces of concrete hauled off, and of course the dozer work for spreading and shaping the rock. All done for 2900, much better than the initial 6000.

As far as the river rock drive, I am very happy so far. Bout 85% has packed down hard as concrete. Did have to have one last concrete truck in for sidewalk pour and you can't tell it was there except where he turned around and got to the edge near the garage pad. May have one more load spread out at this point. Has rained last few days and happy no water stands and drive remains hard and solid after only a week.
 

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