Toplink Another Hydraulic Toplink Question

[JerryG]

Hmmm....an American importer of Turkish HTLs maligning a mechanical engineer from Turkish farm country. Something's wrong with this picture....

I don't know if it is still right or not, but at one time all of CCI / Mark's HTL were made in Italy.

 

[N80]

Its probably foolish to enter into this disagreement but several thoughts occur to me.

First, I'm not aware of any product for which there is only one level of quality. So to say that all hydraulic cylinders are the same, seems a little hard to believe.

Second, it does not seem to me that the CCM cylinders cost that much more than any others so for the life of me I can't see what the fuss is about.

Third, even with the DPCV the CCM cylinders are not that much more than ones without them, so again, I'm not sure what that fuss is about either.

So if I'm in the market for one, and I am, then it seems to me that if I can get one from a relatively local reseller, who stands by the product and includes a DPCV for not that much more money than why not go with him?

 

[flINTLOCK]

Have used CCM HTL for about a year now. Very nice people. Good product. Originally ordered shorter one, then realized the longer one was what I needed. Exchanged slightly used shorty no problem. If I ever need another, CCM will be my choice.

 

[StrangeRanger]

Yup, don't think Mark and Nomad need to further their discussion. I think it's below both of them.

I can say I just recently did some business w/ Mark at CCM and was very happy. I decided to go w/ CCM b/c of all the positive feedback on this forum. My top link is awesome. There was a slight issue w/ the side link, nothing to do w/ quality, simply a matter of they hadn't done one for my tractor type yet so the "size" wasn't quite right, I contacted Mark and got an immediate response and favorable resolution.

If I paid a few more dollars for DPCV's that I might actually not need, I really don't care. But I do care that I received a quality product and stellar service. Kudos to CCM.

 

[Rara Avis]

Service trumps supposedly equal products with reduced pricing sometimes...

I've had dealings with CCM...not Turkey, except during a NATO exercise...

 

[nomad]

...I'm not aware of any product for which there is only one level of quality. So to say that all hydraulic cylinders are the same, seems a little hard to believe....

Hard to believe it or not, it is a fact that, yes, steel tubes (I gave standards above), rods and hard chromium coats used in hydraulic cylinders are same. We were discussing this. The only difference between hydraulic toplinks is in the labor; in welding, in assembling the seal and covers, etc.

Note that most of hydraulic toplink manufacturers are usually relatively small workshops and they buy the materials easily available in the market. For example, DIN 2391/C precision tube is easily available as importer source import it in big volume. Alternatively, DIN 2393 can be used, but availability of it anytime is not so easy. So, manufacturing workshop does not think about other alternative materials. They go for whatever easily available is. And, it is 2391/C ST52 high tensile carbon steel precision tube in hydraulic tube industry. OK? Only novices and naives will believe in that "my material is better quality." Experienced and knowledgable one both in engineering and market is speaking here.

 

[sugarmaple]

I bought my HTL from the dealer that sold me my tractor and vertical splitter hydraulic tank retrofit kit. Now I am perfectly willing to accept responsibility for the ensuing disaster which could have been averted with more specific activation of gray matter, BUT a good opportunity to save me from myself (and generate a bunch of very vocal goodwill) was missed in not being willing to discuss the matter with me. CCM is willing to discuss and support, which is as mastercard says, priceless. That willingness would likely have saved me the $1500 it cost to replace the rear window and roof of my cab. $300 for that toplink would have been cheap. By the way, pulling the hydraulic tank supply fitting through tempered glass is as loud as a gunshot when the glass finally gives up, leaving no doubt what one has just accomplished. I like to remind myself of the expression I read here on TBN that a serious mistake is one that cannot be addressed with money. So true, but saying goodbye to those $ made me squeak nevertheless.

Re: Exchange rates. I spent three weeks flying daily at a glider field as a kid, weather permitting and including XC, in Germany. for 500 DM when the exchange was 4 DM/buck. One demo ride costs that now. How times have changed. Back then a nice little composite 40-1 glider could be had for less than 10K (which still was an expensive toy now the top end of composite gliders is an order of magnitude greater reflecting the many, many price pressures we see throughout our economy. Heaven help the working man.

 

[jinman]

It seems that there are people "talking too good" about their toplinks.

Everytime I read this, I ask a question. What is it that Mark says that is "talking too good"? He only stated how his toplinks are made and asked us all to compare. Have you pointed out something that he said that is not accurate about his product? I could not find it. All I see is that you inferred that his comments were "too good" about his product and then didn't justify your comment, but just stated how your product is made. Why not just say "I have a product that I think is as good as Mark's and you can buy it at. . . for $. . ." Just tell us where we can get your product and let us decide. If your product is not available, then why even say anything?

I have Mark's product and love it. It works perfectly and was an excellent value. Am I "talking too good" too?

 

[sugarmaple]

Another observation or two:

Strangeranger is quite right that these pi--ing contests on TBN do not help anyone and always leave me feeling a little sad. There is plenty of room for differing opinion and cold hard facts are much harder to discern than we, myself included, frequently think. We are here to help each other and have a little fun, not to be the most right ((by whose standard anyway?))

Now here I go into uncharted waters. Nomad lists his contact as Agriturk in Turkey. TR is not a US state, it is Turkey. He is not American. No crime there, go back a generation or two and many of us are not. Mostly we are mutts which is to no small degree, one of the sources of our ongoing strength and vitality as a nation. Nomad is not trying to bomb us; he is trying to drum up business and his lack of total fluency in English is, IMHO, the source of much of this ballyhoo, as in talking too good which I take to mean something not quite so inflammatory as it may sound. I still would buy a CCM if I had it to do again because I think our balance of trade deficit is gonna kill us as surely as anything else.

Lets live and let live and have some fun while we are at it!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I'm still waiting about the OSHA thing. My thinking is that something has been misunderstood regarding the check valves and hydraulics. I think that the DPOCVs are required where there is overhead lifting involved. Such as cranes, high reach forklifts and the like. If there are any of these valves on our tractors that are oem, then I would like to know, because none of my tractors have them.

 

[greg_g]

I still would buy a CCM if I had it to do again because I think our balance of trade deficit is gonna kill us as surely as anything else.

I think you missed the point that CCM is reported to import those HTLs from Turkey

//greg//

 

[N80]

Hard to believe it or not, it is a fact that, yes, steel tubes (I gave standards above), rods and hard chromium coats used in hydraulic cylinders are same.

I appreciate you saying so, but that's one person's word against a lifetime experience of assessing and buying 'things'. Despite your assurances I still don't believe there is only one level of quality in the world of hydraulics and one person, regardless of how well qualified, saying so is not likely to change my mind. I'm very open to changing my opinion but finding that somehow the world of hydraulics has not only achieved a perfect level of standardization, but that there is only ONE level would be mind blowing.

As for CCM's products being imported, so what. I don't care where stuff is from if it meets the level of quality that the seller advertises. Personally, I'd rather see us make more here at home.......but that ship has sailed........and is over the horizen.

As far as check valves on the rest of the tractor, I don't know. But where there is a requirement for precision, like the 3pt hitch lift arms, there is position control. If you need the type of precision provided by position control, then you will need the length of your top link to stay perfectly static. Outside of position/draft control, I'm not sure where that level of static precision is needed. Certainly not in the FEL.

 

[HayDR]

CCM has products made from around the world. We do import some products from Turkey but not our hydraulic toplinks. Our toplinks and check valves are made in Italy. We also manufacture a disc mower here in the USA so we are not totally a sales and import company. We have approached many USA hydraulic cylinder manufacturers and they have quoted us prices and every one of them have quoted us prices higher that we are selling them to the public. These companies are not realistic because hydraulic cylinders are mostly manufactured by automation. Steel price is about the same all around the world. So we are still able to offer a quality USA product with the weak US$. I'd buy from a USA MFG but how many toplinks and side-links would we sell if the prices were $100-150 more per each item?

 

[3RRL]

Mark's top link is as good as any.
Couple that with excellent service, and you can't beat it.
Example:
My first top link I bought from him broke ... it popped off the rod end when I lifted my box blade. I called him and he sent out a replacement at no cost AND a prepaid return slip for the broken cylinder. In other words, he sent out the replacement top link along with the return slip...not after he received the broken one. No hassles whatsoever!

I have used his DPOCV on several implements, where the valves were bad. They are top notch and about 1/4th the size and weight of Surplus Center's. I've bought at least 6 of them for various uses where I need to keep the cylinder in the position I choose. He sends all the hardware needed to install them, so it is an easy addition if you need that for your applications.

Point is, Mark does a great job as far as I'm concerned. I have no reason to look elsewhere.
Signed, satisfied customer.

 

[nomad]

What is it that Mark says that is "talking too good"? He only stated how his toplinks are made and asked us all to compare. Have you pointed out something that he said that is not accurate about his product?

The term "favor" exists in the life because it helps those (here, buyers like yourself) to develop/improve their appreciation ability.

Nomad just did a favor to you potential buyers by highlighting the difference between "good" and "too good." Saying "my material is better" is significantly different than "our materials are same" while our materials are same.

 

[canoetrpr]

I've been very happy dealing with Mark over the phone on my toplink and sidelink. He seems like a top notch guy and I am happy to do what I can to support those like him who support this site, even if that means paying for shipping and customs brokerage fees that UPS charges to those of us in Canada.

I'm very happy with all the products I've bought based on the opinions of those at TBN - Pats, Tiltmeter, etc.

Looking forward to my top and side link Mark.

-Aamer