Another Kioti "Won't Start" Thread

[Sinecure]

Kattywumpus -

Agree - for the price of some of the smaller replacement parts (and the fact the my dealer is now defunct) - looks like I am going to have to put together a list of some of the spare parts that I need to "keep in stock".

Hate to have to do that, but the cost and frustration of sitting idle starting to make me think about having some inventory on hand.

 

[Iron Art]

Curious, does the alternator need to be producing juice to support the electrics to maintain the engine running after the initial engine start or will the motor continue to run with a faulty alternator until the battery is dead ? Fred

 

[Coyote machine]

Curious, does the alternator need to be producing juice to support the electrics to maintain the engine running after the initial engine start or will the motor continue to run with a faulty alternator until the battery is dead ? Fred

Answer is: YES. The alternator, when working properly, supplies around 14.25 Volts back to the battery, (which is a nominal 12 Volts). When the alternator is not producing enough voltage high enough to be above what is being drawn off it by the various engine components/accessories then the battery starts to sacrifice its charge to the load the tractor is producing and the result is a dead battery. After it cannot produce enough 'juice' ( technical term), the battery will die; a factor of temperature, and load and its state of charge when the alternator failed. Not keeping a battery at its necessary state of charge, especially when not in use on a regular basis, actually shortens the batteries overall life.

 

[MichiganIron]

.....What I have not reviewed is precisely how the pull coil relay is controlled, but I don't see anything in solenoid circuit that would cause the relay to open if the solenoid plunger returned to the non-running position......

The Pull Coil of the Fuel Solenoid is controlled by the Display Unit. It has the timer circuit for the pull coil activation.

Hope this helps

 

[kattywumpus]

.....What I have not reviewed is precisely how the pull coil relay is controlled, but I don't see anything in solenoid circuit that would cause the relay to open if the solenoid plunger returned to the non-running position......

The Pull Coil of the Fuel Solenoid is controlled by the Display Unit. It has the timer circuit for the pull coil activation.

Hope this helps

Thanks very much for the details.

 

[Coyote machine]

K Wump,

Seems the issue you mentioned in Durobob's thread about quality control; or as I like to refer to it: lack of quality control, is reeking havoc with Kioti's display units. I've had two and going for a third today. (See my update on the issue in a revived thread I posted to last night: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/193901-dk-40-2-questions.html).
Factory unit was bad from the day I rec'd my DK40SE/hst. It would NOT work the glow plug circuit as designed. Second unit was a new number,(superseded original, one digit lower in sequence), and would not run the hours meter.
Today I'm fetching the third unit from my dealer, second 1 hour r/t... speaking of time wasted....
Now I understand, as I'm sure you do from having done q/c like you, years ago, that it is more about the microprocessors/mini- computers, printed circuit boards, and other electronics that is causing a lot of the problems for manufacturers like Kioti, than it is about particular cost cutting measures. However, with cost cutting measures like using the absolute minimum amount of wire in a harness, for but one of many examples, when coupled with poorly soldered and cheap circuits controlling just about everything from our toasters to our tractors to our pc's etc. we end up spending inordinate amounts of time chasing after 'warranty' claims to replace the JUNK that is being thrown at us in all our consumer purchases.
It also seems you may have a bad display unit too... from what you have described. The number sequence goes like this: Display Unit # T2185-69873 ( OEM Factory unit for my DK-40SE/Hst. Replacement is same number on package, BUT actual display unit is marked as ....69872. I understand there is a further revision to 69871, but it is back-ordered!:confused2: YIKES!
Good luck with your problem/solution.

 

[kattywumpus]

K Wump,

Seems the issue you mentioned in Durobob's thread about quality control; or as I like to refer to it: lack of quality control, is reeking havoc with Kioti's display units. I've had two and going for a third today. (See my update on the issue in a revived thread I posted to last night: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/193901-dk-40-2-questions.html).
Factory unit was bad from the day I rec'd my DK40SE/hst. It would NOT work the glow plug circuit as designed. Second unit was a new number,(superseded original, one digit lower in sequence), and would not run the hours meter.
Today I'm fetching the third unit from my dealer, second 1 hour r/t... speaking of time wasted....
Now I understand, as I'm sure you do from having done q/c like you, years ago, that it is more about the microprocessors/mini- computers, printed circuit boards, and other electronics that is causing a lot of the problems for manufacturers like Kioti, than it is about particular cost cutting measures. However, with cost cutting measures like using the absolute minimum amount of wire in a harness, for but one of many examples, when coupled with poorly soldered and cheap circuits controlling just about everything from our toasters to our tractors to our pc's etc. we end up spending inordinate amounts of time chasing after 'warranty' claims to replace the JUNK that is being thrown at us in all our consumer purchases.
It also seems you may have a bad display unit too... from what you have described. The number sequence goes like this: Display Unit # T2185-69873 ( OEM Factory unit for my DK-40SE/Hst. Replacement is same number on package, BUT actual display unit is marked as ....69872. I understand there is a further revision to 69871, but it is back-ordered!:confused2: YIKES!
Good luck with your problem/solution.

Thanks for the details. So far I haven't had any further electrical problems since Batchelder last worked on it and I started parking the tractor in the new shelter, keeping my fingers crossed. But I'm going to keep a close eye on the display unit.

 

[Mr_D]

My CK25HST was doing something similar the last couple of times I have used the tractor. I have had some issues with the terminals not getting a good connection with the battery, but I just cleaned the posts and replaced both the positive and negative terminals.

That did not resolve the issue of occasionally not seeming like was I was getting a good connection and consistent power to the glow plugs or starter. Then recently it would at times turn over but not start. Turning the key all the way off and then back on would generally resolve this issue. Sometimes it would start and then immediately die. This symptom was not related to the glow plugs as it would do the same thing even if the engine was very warm and just turned off.

I called the local dealer and they said replace the ignition as it is a common problem area, especially in higher humidity areas (northwest). They did not have one in stock and it costs around $50-$60. So, I pulled the old one out cleaned the connections inside the ignition and now it seems to have fixed the problem.

I had a similar issue with the glow plug relay (Top Drivers side of firewall in engine compartment). The glow plug light would come on, I would hear the click, by no voltage to the glow plugs. Thus it would crank just fine, but not start when glow plugs were needed at all. Being a non-direct injection engine, they are needed a lot of the time to start. I replaced that relay with a newer sealed version that is less prone to dust issues and I have not any problems with it since then.

Hope this helps some.

-MR_D

 

[Sinecure]

Thanks Mr_D

I appreciate hearing what others have done or tried when they have experienced a similar issue - it helps me get lined up on what to look for or potentially expect.

I replaced the ignition switch during my last visit to my property, but did not get the problem resolved.

I believe I have the issue located at the Engine Stop Relay and the Solenoid.

I ordered the parts from MichiganIron and will be back at the tractor late next week. (I also ordered some other items in case the relay and solenoid are not the issue).

I will update the thread with my progress once I get back to the tractor.

 

[Sinecure]

As an update -

I was able to get back to the tractor this week. I had ordered multiple replacement parts from MichiganIron in case my issue turned out to be more than the engine stop relay or stop solenoid.

Replacing BOTH the stop relay and solenoid solved my issue and I was able to get the tractor started and running (without stopping a minute or two into the warm-up idle).

I was curious if it was either/or on the relay and solenoid, so I tried a combination of old an new parts to see if it was just one of the items. My issue was not solved until I replaced both the relay and solenoid.

Now that I can motor around, I plan to pull it out of the garage and really check the wiring over - (See Durobob's Thread).

Thanks for everyone's help and thoughts regarding the issue. I really appreciate it. Time to get it dirty again.