Antifreeze (again)

[MiserableOldFart]

OK, it's that time of year, and as every year at this time, I dutifully drain, flush and replace the coolant. The dealer where I bought my tractor is no longer in the New Holland business, and the one where I buy parts sells a generic green antifreeze.

After reading so much about the disasters of antifreeze on this site, I decided that this year I would go out and find something made especially for diesels, so I went to the local auto parts store and got Zerex Heavy duty diesel ready 300,000 mile, 7000 hour guaranteed premix. I had previously purchased a gallon of Sierra, but was scared off from using it by the many posts about the dangers of antifreeze in tractors. The Zerex doesn't specifically mention CNH, but does say it meets the standards of CAT and John Deere, so I'm thinking this is good stuff. Is there anything wrong with this logic?

And once again, I have to say, that even though I do it, the antifreeze I take out of the tractor at the end of 12 months and about 50 - 60 hours looks as good as it went going in. I just can't believe it's necessary to change it this often, but I do it because the owner's manual says to. Anyone out there who stretches their coolant? I'm not talking about 7000 hours here, but I do truly believe that it would easily last 36 months and, say, 200 hours without losing its ability to protect the engine as well as prevent freezing... but, I don't believe it enough to not change it every year..

 

[jinman]

Your tractor should have 50-50 winter/summer permanent anti-freeze. Don't let the discussions and horror stories of cavitation bubbles bother you. All those things apply to wet sleeve diesel cylinders only. Your cylinders are dry sleeve and nothing like those others. Ethylene Glycol permanent anti-freeze is what you should be using. If you feel really worried about leakage and the environment, you can use propylene glycol antifreeze instead. The only advantage of your using anti-freeze with diesel additives goes into the pockets of those selling anti-freeze. Please look at your owner's manual and consider that NH has recommended normal anti-freeze. They also recommend an annual change based on farm tractors with hundreds more hours of use each year than you will use your tractor. I think you could safely change your antifreeze at the same time as you change hydraulic fluid. That's at 300 hours. If you change each 300 hours, you'll probably see that even then you'll wonder if you aren't pouring out perfectly good anti-freeze. Whatever you use, test it to make sure you have the proper freeze protection before winter's chill hits.:thumbsup:

 

[sweep]

And once again, I have to say, that even though I do it, the antifreeze I take out of the tractor at the end of 12 months and about 50 - 60 hours looks as good as it went going in. I just can't believe it's necessary to change it this often, but I do it because the owner's manual says to. Anyone out there who stretches their coolant? I'm not talking about 7000 hours here, but I do truly believe that it would easily last 36 months and, say, 200 hours without losing its ability to protect the engine as well as prevent freezing... but, I don't believe it enough to not change it every year..

Like yourself, I also only put 40-60 hours on my tractor every year. I have a 2 year change schedule. One year is just too soon with so few hours. NH is being safe when they say yearly because they don't mention hours. I would think the yearly change is meant for the 250-500+ hour per year types. My dealer said most people don't change their fluid at all or maybe once every 5-6 years..if the tractor is lucky... so our tractors are way ahead at every 2 years.

Also remember to only use distilled water. Never use any radiator flush chemicals. The harsh chemicals peel off the protective coatings on the aluminum radiators.

I use regular Prestone green anti-freeze with the New Holland FW-15 conditioner and test it with the Fleetguard strips once or twice per year.

 

[sweep]

Don't let the discussions and horror stories of cavitation bubbles bother you. All those things apply to wet sleeve diesel cylinders only. Your cylinders are dry sleeve and nothing like those others. Ethylene Glycol permanent anti-freeze is what you should be using. :

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. I have 3 NH dealers within an hour of my house and all 3 have said to use a diesel conditioner even though I have a dry liner engine. Ford had cavitation problems with their dry liner tractor engines back in the 80's and 90's so it happens.

There was also a diesel tractor engine rebuilder on a Kubota thread?? on TBN that said they do see damage in the water jackets on dry liner engines from cavitation and he makes sure he runs it in his dry liner engine.

 

[Soundguy]

the fw or fp 15 is only a few bucks a pint.. not a big deal to add it even if not needed.

soundguy

 

[jinman]

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. I have 3 NH dealers within an hour of my house and all 3 have said to use a diesel conditioner even though I have a dry liner engine. Ford had cavitation problems with their dry liner tractor engines back in the 80's and 90's so it happens.

There was also a diesel tractor engine rebuilder on a Kubota thread?? on TBN that said they do see damage in the water jackets on dry liner engines from cavitation and he makes sure he runs it in his dry liner engine.

What does your owner's manual call for? Read what it says and repeat over and over to yourself, "The dealer sells additives. He makes more money from me when I buy them." Do what you want. . . it's your money. As for me, anecdotes with no evidence are just fiction. What model tractor engines?

Why is it that 80s and 90s Fords don't have problems unless somebody brings it up in an anti-freeze discussion? I never hear anyone say, "Oh don't buy 80s and 90s Fords, they had water jacket damage." I think it's just another urban legend. Too bad Snopes doesn't debunk tractor rumors. Nothing against any of you personally, but you are being sucked in without concrete evidence. For me, when you go against manufacturer's recommendations, you have to show me. I'm from Missouri. . .

 

[Jerry/MT]

Your tractor should have 50-50 winter/summer permanent anti-freeze. Don't let the discussions and horror stories of cavitation bubbles bother you. All those things apply to wet sleeve diesel cylinders only. Your cylinders are dry sleeve and nothing like those others. Ethylene Glycol permanent anti-freeze is what you should be using. If you feel really worried about leakage and the environment, you can use propylene glycol antifreeze instead. The only advantage of your using anti-freeze with diesel additives goes into the pockets of those selling anti-freeze. Please look at your owner's manual and consider that NH has recommended normal anti-freeze. They also recommend an annual change based on farm tractors with hundreds more hours of use each year than you will use your tractor. I think you could safely change your antifreeze at the same time as you change hydraulic fluid. That's at 300 hours. If you change each 300 hours, you'll probably see that even then you'll wonder if you aren't pouring out perfectly good anti-freeze. Whatever you use, test it to make sure you have the proper freeze protection before winter's chill hits.:thumbsup:

My NH TD95D manual recommends coolant with a DCA in it (A Fleetguard product). I just changed out my antifreeze with Prestone Long Life coolant and I added a pint of Motorcraft DCA. My Ford 4610 has wet sleeves and I have been using DCA in it for many years even though it's not in the owners manual recommendations.

 

[jinman]

My NH TD95D manual recommends coolant with a DCA in it (A Fleetguard product). I just changed out my antifreeze with Prestone Long Life coolant and I added a pint of Motorcraft DCA. My Ford 4610 has wet sleeves and I have been using DCA in it for many years even though it's not in the owners manual recommendations.

Yes, your TD95D recommends coolant with DCA and your 4610 is wet sleeve. If that were the case on the TC26D of the OP or my TC45D, I would never have posted my opposition. There are additives you need in the coolant of an engine with an aluminum block that you don't need in a cast iron block engine. To suggest you can gain any advantage using those additive on cast iron would also bring on my doubts. If you walk into any autoparts store or even Walmart, you will find shelves full of additives for everything in the world. None of them are terribly expensive, but the the sales of them to hundreds of thousands of folks makes a lot of money.

BTW: Did you hear recently that they are saying multi-vitamins are of no real use to most people who take them regularly? Now, I don't know for sure. . . just sayin'.

 

[ksshooter]

I am positive this is not the correct thing to do and my tractors were both vintage Ford gasoline 4 cylinder engines. I never changed coolant in my tractors.:ashamed: I did check it regularly, but never changed it. One of them I had for over 10 years. Yes, yes, yes, I know now that this was not the right thing to do. For the most part the Ford 2000 stayed outside..summer and winter. The 641 was kept inside because it was a beauty and I would go to the trouble of pulling the mower to get her in my shed. But I only owned the 641 for two years. I did grease it often and change the oil twice a year. Cleaned all filters regularly, etc, etc. But I never had a problem. I believe I will follow the 300 hour rule. It just got changed by the previous owner at 300 hours and it is still under 350. I don't want to start a war on coolant changes but I wanted to share my experience. Certainly not as a model of what to do. Did I mention I live in Northeast Kansas...it does get COLD.

 

[Soundguy]

it's got to be better than the 'clean pond water' they would have got back in 39


soundguy

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Thanks for all the replies.. I wasn't sure if the TC26DA was wet sleeve or not. The owner's manual recommends NH anti-freeze but the dealer doesn't sell it. Next year I think I will switch to the Sierra. NH does make a propylene glycol based antifreeze too but when I asked the dealer about it he had never heard of it.

The premixed diesel stuff I bought does also mention cavitation in water pumps, but that probably only applies to much larger engines.

We don't have sewers here, and when I change the antifreeze, although I drain it and one flush into a bucket, when I run the hose to flush the running engine, there is always a tinge of color in what comes out and runs into the ground. From what I read, ethylene glycol isn't really much of a problem as long as it does get into the ground because it biodegrades pretty quickly. But it is very toxic and attractive to any wildlife or pets that come upon it.

 

[julichris]

May I ask here what is the function of changing the coolant. The manual recommends it (I have a TC45DA). The service department at my dealership scoffs at the idea and says it is unnecessary.

 

[sweep]

May I ask here what is the function of changing the coolant. The manual recommends it (I have a TC45DA). The service department at my dealership scoffs at the idea and says it is unnecessary.

Copied this from the net, easier than typing it out.

The life of the antifreeze depends on it's ability to inhibit corrosion. Silicates, phosphates and/or borates are used as corrosion inhibitors to keep the solution alkaline. As long as the antifreeze remains so, corrosion is held in check and there's no need to change the coolant. But as the corrosion inhibiting chemicals are used up over time, electrolytic corrosion starts to eat away at the metal inside the engine and radiator. Aluminum is especially vulnerable to corrosion and can turn to Swiss cheese rather quickly when conditions are right. Solder bloom can also form in copper\brass radiators causing leaks and restrictions. So changing the coolant periodically as preventative maintenance is a good way to prevent costly repairs.

Also antifreeze acts as a lubricant for the water pump and the lubricants wear out from age and heat.

 

[sweep]

What does your owner's manual call for? Read what it says and repeat over and over to yourself, "The dealer sells additives. He makes more money from me when I buy them." Do what you want. . . it's your money. As for me, anecdotes with no evidence are just fiction. What model tractor engines?

Why is it that 80s and 90s Fords don't have problems unless somebody brings it up in an anti-freeze discussion? I never hear anyone say, "Oh don't buy 80s and 90s Fords, they had water jacket damage." I think it's just another urban legend. Too bad Snopes doesn't debunk tractor rumors. Nothing against any of you personally, but you are being sucked in without concrete evidence. For me, when you go against manufacturer's recommendations, you have to show me. I'm from Missouri. . .

Why do many diesel PU trucks recommend DCA additives? They don't have wet liners. Cavitation happens in all diesel engines..it just happens more in wet liner diesel engines.

 

[jinman]

Peak anti-freeze guarantees engine protection for the life of your vehicle provided you flush out your cooling system prior to putting in their anti-freeze. This is just their way of insuring you have a clean system to start with and don't have a contaminated system before the anti-freeze is added. They also say that their anti-freeze is completely compatible with other anti-freezes. It's a bit humorous to read their statement, but it says, "Can be used to top-off any color of automotive antifreeze including green, yellow, orange, fuschia, blue and red." So if you have fuschia anti-freeze, you are good to go.:laughing:

Here's a link to Peak's website.

Peak also is the maker of Sierra brand propylene glycol, but it is not considered a lifetime anti-freeze to my knowledge and you also have to have a special tester to check if it meets the proper freeze protection. Regular anti-freeze testers check a different specific gravity than the Sierra. Here's a link to the Sierra site.

If you absolutely must have Fleetguard anti-freeze (they call it Fleet Charge), they also sell that with the SCAs included.

 

[Soundguy]

So if you have fuschia anti-freeze, you are good to go.:laughing:

Adding the napa sca/DAC addative (wine-red ) does tend to change the coolant to a redish pinkish color does that count?


soundguy

 

[MiserableOldFart]

So the conclusion I infer from all the above is that I'm good to go with the current antifreeze (Zerex heavy duty for diesel) and it should also be good for a couple years @<100hrs per year, and probably more, but two years should be fine.

Right?

And one more question: I bought the 50/50 mix, so didn't have to dilute, but does it make sense to use distilled water when you dilute your antifreeze? It would seem that (especially) well water would have a bunch of minerals in it that could only do evil in there..

 

[sweep]

So the conclusion I infer from all the above is that I'm good to go with the current antifreeze (Zerex heavy duty for diesel) and it should also be good for a couple years @<100hrs per year, and probably more, but two years should be fine.

Right?

And one more question: I bought the 50/50 mix, so didn't have to dilute, but does it make sense to use distilled water when you dilute your antifreeze? It would seem that (especially) well water would have a bunch of minerals in it that could only do evil in there..

Yep, you are good to go as to your first question. My neighbor bought a TN55 new in 2005 and it is still on it's original antifreeze so you and I are way ahead of things.

I have always read it's best to use distilled water instead of tap water which supposedly has a lot of lime?? in it but I spoke to a radiator shop owner at a Rotary meeting recently and he said to use "ionized"?? water instead of distilled? He was also the one that said never to use the chemical radiator flushes as the chemical in it remove the protective anodized coating the radiators have on them.

I never flush my radiator with a hose/tap water. I just drain the block and radiator and add new 50 distilled water/50 antifreeze and fw-15 conditioner. I figure the little I use the tractor and the frequent changes are doing more than needed.

The next change I will probabaly go with the diesel af instead of the fw-15

 

[Soundguy]

deionized water more likely that 'ionized'

soundguy

 

[SteveInMD]

If you are worried about the antifreeze it can easily be tested with test strips sold at auto parts stores or tractor dealers. The most important parameter to look at is pH. The pH should remain stable. Test it every 6 months to 1 year. If the pH starts to drop it's time for a change. If you really want to push the limit you can wait until it gets down to 8 and then change it. You will like get many years out of it.