Any HVAC techs in the house?

[LD1]

And if that's what he means, thatsfi e and totally understandable. Which is why I clarified and encouraged him to come back to the thread and weigh in.

Flat out stating "you can. Disagree all you want but you are incorrect" just about had me reply in a more argumentative and hostile manner. But I thought the better of it, and choose to explain myself a little more and give the opportunity for him to to do the same.

My basement is most definitely conditioned. With 7 vents downstairs, and 9 upstairs. The basement has always been cooler, before on after the geo install.

Anyone, (HVAC pro w/35 years experience or amature) that tells me that pulling cooler conditioned air from the basement to the upstairs is a bad idea....is not someone I would trust to know what is most efficient. I don't care if something has "been done that way for 40 years" or not. I am the one paying my bill. I am the one that knows how often my ac has to come on and stay off for.

So someone on the internet tells me my setup is wrong, and I should be doing it in a manner (that causes my system to run more and higher bills) just because that's the way he has always done it for 35 years.......and when I have had HVAC professionals in my area, that have actually been in my house and know the setup confirm that what I am doing is the most efficient I can get with my equipment....well, you see where I am coming from.

 

[Sigarms]

And if that's what he means, thatsfi e and totally understandable. Which is why I clarified and encouraged him to come back to the thread and weigh in.

Flat out stating "you can. Disagree all you want but you are incorrect" just about had me reply in a more argumentative and hostile manner. But I thought the better of it, and choose to explain myself a little more and give the opportunity for him to to do the same.

My basement is most definitely conditioned. With 7 vents downstairs, and 9 upstairs. The basement has always been cooler, before on after the geo install.

Anyone, (HVAC pro w/35 years experience or amature) that tells me that pulling cooler conditioned air from the basement to the upstairs is a bad idea....is not someone I would trust to know what is most efficient. I don't care if something has "been done that way for 40 years" or not. I am the one paying my bill. I am the one that knows how often my ac has to come on and stay off for.

So someone on the internet tells me my setup is wrong, and I should be doing it in a manner (that causes my system to run more and higher bills) just because that's the way he has always done it for 35 years.......and when I have had HVAC professionals in my area, that have actually been in my house and know the setup confirm that what I am doing is the most efficient I can get with my equipment....well, you see where I am coming from.

In Kenmac's defense, when I read you statement

"I disagree about basement air.

The basement is the coolest place in my house. Hotter return air makes the unit work harder.

My basement isnt finished, but is occupied. Kits toy room, laundry, etc. ITs not uncommon for it to be 60 in the basement and 80 upstairs (prior to ac). When I really dont need any cooling.....rather I need blending of the air to make the whole house average out at 70.

I have a basement return, its open to pull all that cool air it desires and blow it upstairs.

As to the temp swings, the hotter the return air, the greater the swing....but that dont equate to efficiency.

And when you said "once the house stabilizes the heat loss will be less".....

Not sure what you mean by that. IF its 95 outside, heat loss will be less at 77 than it will at 72.

The greater the difference in temp between the house and outside....the greater the heat transfer. So the hotter the house is, the less BTU's get transferred to the outside, The farther the spread, the greater the transfer rate. So keeping the house cooler, equates to faster heat loss with the same outside temps."

I thought you were referencing the fact that your basement was unconditioned and you were pulling cool air from the basement from a return into your HVAC system.

Basements below grade (which you didn't state, but what I assumed) will generally be cooler, be it condintioned or not.

My own basment is furnished and has it's own HVAC system. Generally never have to worry about running the AC during the summer, usually it's heating in the winter when my 85 year old father is staying with us lol

 

[LD1]

In Kenmac's defense, when I read you statement

"I disagree about basement air.

The basement is the coolest place in my house. Hotter return air makes the unit work harder.

My basement isnt finished, but is occupied. Kits toy room, laundry, etc. ITs not uncommon for it to be 60 in the basement and 80 upstairs (prior to ac). When I really dont need any cooling.....rather I need blending of the air to make the whole house average out at 70.

I have a basement return, its open to pull all that cool air it desires and blow it upstairs.

As to the temp swings, the hotter the return air, the greater the swing....but that dont equate to efficiency.

And when you said "once the house stabilizes the heat loss will be less".....

Not sure what you mean by that. IF its 95 outside, heat loss will be less at 77 than it will at 72.

The greater the difference in temp between the house and outside....the greater the heat transfer. So the hotter the house is, the less BTU's get transferred to the outside, The farther the spread, the greater the transfer rate. So keeping the house cooler, equates to faster heat loss with the same outside temps."

I thought you were referencing the fact that your basement was unconditioned and you were pulling cool air from the basement from a return into your HVAC system.

Basements below grade (which you didn't state, but what I assumed) will generally be cooler, be it condintioned or not.

My own basment is furnished and has it's own HVAC system. Generally never have to worry about running the AC during the summer, usually it's heating in the winter when my 85 year old father is staying with us lol

Yes, basement is conditions....AND below grade. Well, about 75% below grade. It is a walk out basement, but dirt around as much as can up to the walkout point, which has ~4' high retaining walls.

With a better understanding of my basement, and the fact that it is conditioned......do you disagree with any of my comments so far? Or any of the ones you quoted?

 

[Sigarms]

With a better understanding of my basement, and the fact that it is conditioned......do you disagree with any of my comments so far?

No, per your basement.

 

[LD1]

I agree with you that I think he just has a mis-understanding of my situation. Would really like his feedback now that I have hopefully cleared things up.

As to the op....I do t think he has ever specified weather his is conditioned or not. And my apologies for the hijack

 

[kenmac]

With your updated information (better explaining your situation / installation).I would say yor set up is probably ok.
Around here (in the HVAC world) a conditioned space (basement,etc) is referred to as space that is heated & or cooled.
A basement could mean most anything where people store lawn mowers, weed trimmers, park vehicles, all sorts of chemicals, etc,. People will store anything in a basement ,and taking return air from just any basement isn't advised or approved for health reasons, or even fires.

In the op case, his return was cut in the basement because someone didn't want to bother to enlarge his house return. If he's just taking basement return air because his house return is too small, then his system isn't going to be efficient as it could be. He should be removing heat /humidity from his living space. That's what properly designed systems do. He already has a mismatched system. An older furnace matched to newer equipment different size condenser, coil, undersized duct work. So he's probably getting about the best he's going to get

I bowed out earlier, because I really didn't want this to lead to arguing all day about how /why someones system is or isn't installed correctly.

 

[Sigarms]

As to the op....I do t think he has ever specified weather his is conditioned or not. And my apologies for the hijack

Likewise, I apologize as well to the hijack of this thread.

I've just find that trying to trouble shoot a HVAC system over the internet a lot like playing marco polo.

 

[kenmac]

Likewise, I apologize as well to the hijack of this thread.

I've just find that trying to trouble shoot a HVAC system over the internet a lot like playing marco polo.

Sigrams,You couldn't be more correct !:thumbsup: I sold my business last yr, and retired, but just can't seem to let it go. I still seem to want to stick my :2cents: in whether it's here or on HVAC forums . I just need to delete myself from anything HVAC and let it go !

 

[newbury]

LD you can disagree all you want, but you aren't correct..I was in the bus, for 35 yrs I have never taken return air form a basement or a crawl space or attic space..I don't think you'll find it in the code either.. I could go more into detail of why this shouldn't be done, but at this point I'm out.. Ya'll carry on and take return from where ever you wish

Kenmac - you must have mispoke when you said "a basement" I've lived 65 years in the Northeast, east and Mississippi. All the houses in those years had/have basements, all the basements had/have air ducts for heat at least (In Vermont we didn't have a/c cooling) and all of them were in various stages of being "finished".
The three I own now have returns coming from above grade level AND in the basement where the furnace is

Kenmac stated "for 35 yrs I have never taken return air form a basement or a crawl space or attic space..". From my experience, every state varies per what people use and layout via HVAC systems, but on the east coast, from New York to at least North Carolina, in general, when you here the term crawl space or attic space, it's generally an unconditioned space.

Perhaps he misinterpreted what you stated, I'm not certain, but that is where my comment came from.
I believe what Kenmac is saying in 35 years he has never pulled return air from an unconditioned space (I also believe that is what he meant by "code").

But he used the term basement - not unconditioned space.

With your updated information (better explaining your situation / installation).I would say you are probably ok.
Around here (in the HVAC world) a conditioned space (basement,etc) is referred to as space that is heated & or cooled.
A basement could mean most anything where people store lawn mowers, weed trimmers, park vehicles, all sorts of chemicals, etc,. People will store anything in a basement ,and taking return air from just any basement isn't advised or approved for health reasons, or even fires.
<snip>

Are you indicating that taking return air from a basement is against code in some areas? I'm concerned because I have three basements like that.

 

[Sigarms]

But he used the term basement - not unconditioned space.

Sigh... he used basement in the same breath with attic and crawl space. I ASSUMED since he was lumping all three together. He also didn't mention that the attic or crawl space was unconditioned as well.

I've been in an attic that was about 2300 square feet, none of it conditioned.