coobie1
Member
If your that concerned about the land and rutting dig into your own pockets and pay your neighbors bill to hire loggers who use draft horses and logging chains to clear the woods.They do a lot less damage to the landscape.
Any kind of recourse for land getting logged behind me?
- Thread starter ShowroomShine
- Start date
- Views: 12759
LD1
Epic Contributor
I am surprised it took until page 4 for someone to hit on money (EddieWalker).
The easiest and quickest way for the loggers to get the most amount of logs out is going to make them AND the landowner the most money.
Anything else, cleanup, re-plant, chipping brush, fixing ruts, selective harvest, etc. All costs money. It dont make the logs that WERE harvested worth anymore. So that cost has to come from somewhere. And that is out of the landowners pocket.
Around here, there are many loggers. Weather tops are removed or ground, ruts fixed, etc is all up to the owner and how much the owner wants to spend to have the cleanup done.
But I will say that about 90% of the logging done is what you guys would call a "mess". Mud and ruts are unavoidable in certain areas of the woods. Heck, most are already rutted up prior to the loggers even arriving by the landowner weather its a tractor, truck, or ATV. And all the tops left are good firewood that there is no shortage of people willing to come in and cut up.
My idea of a mess would be lots of collateral damage that was not cleaned up. Leaving lots of widowmakers, or trees hung up in other trees, etc. THATS a mess. Tops on the ground and a few ruts...No big deal
The easiest and quickest way for the loggers to get the most amount of logs out is going to make them AND the landowner the most money.
Anything else, cleanup, re-plant, chipping brush, fixing ruts, selective harvest, etc. All costs money. It dont make the logs that WERE harvested worth anymore. So that cost has to come from somewhere. And that is out of the landowners pocket.
Around here, there are many loggers. Weather tops are removed or ground, ruts fixed, etc is all up to the owner and how much the owner wants to spend to have the cleanup done.
But I will say that about 90% of the logging done is what you guys would call a "mess". Mud and ruts are unavoidable in certain areas of the woods. Heck, most are already rutted up prior to the loggers even arriving by the landowner weather its a tractor, truck, or ATV. And all the tops left are good firewood that there is no shortage of people willing to come in and cut up.
My idea of a mess would be lots of collateral damage that was not cleaned up. Leaving lots of widowmakers, or trees hung up in other trees, etc. THATS a mess. Tops on the ground and a few ruts...No big deal
Citydude
Elite Member
As others have stated, your treading on the wrong side of the fence...with that being said, wait until it's logged. If there are concerns you feel you would like to discuss with the landowner, that's the time to do so. Offer to assist in correcting the concerns if he is unable to do it.
murphy1244
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2011
- Messages
- 16,336
- Location
- Ohio
- Tractor
- Kubota 1120 RTV Kioti DK-40, MF-135, Ventrac 4500Y
Go find yourself a Spotted Owl and let it go on his land and take lots of pictures and send them to that Sierra club.
JerryK
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2004
- Messages
- 3,240
- Location
- Vanderbilt, Michigan, USeh?
- Tractor
- Mahindra (2011)5035 HST TLB & (2016)2555 HST Cab & (2017)1526 HST(2018)Cub Cadet Pro Z 154L (1991) Caterpillar E70B
A persons view ends at the his own property line. Plant a few rows of pines in any direction you don't want the view to change. Up here in Northern Michigan, the loggers come in and take what they want.. Usually just the few logs they can sell to the mills. Then they pile up the rest to sell to firewood truckers. The tops are usually just left where they lay, for the homeowner to cut up if he wants some firewood. But is just scrap as far as the loggers are concerned. If it is a big acreage, they may bring in a chipper... then truck the chips away via semi's. But usually not worth it... Logging is a nasty mess, but you can not control your neighbors property. If he want to bulldoze the whole shebang... that none of his neighbors business. You wouldn't want him to tell you how to live.
deerseeker001
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2011
- Messages
- 5,699
- Location
- Central wisconsin
- Tractor
- International 2500a with Loader
this is how i feel.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
That is exactly right.
When we had our land timbered I thought about having the logging company to this and that figured that the logging companies job was to cut as many trees in the shortest amount of time. The company had at least a million dollars in equipment cutting, moving and stacking trees/logs. If the equipment was not working, the owners were loosing money. They only left one hole and one rut. Tree tops were either left spread out or bunched up to rot. The bunched up tops were hardwoods where lined up in a row, and while I know where they are located, the were hardly noticeable after five years or so. Now they are most rotted away. Where the log deck was located, we had a pile of wood that was about as tall as a single story house. After our house was built, tops and root balls were added to the pile which was became the size of a two story house. Ten years later that pile is all but gone and tree are growing out of what is left. It just looks like a bunch of woods at this point.
What I thought was a hoot, was a "neighbor" called the sheriff on the loggers! :laughing::laughing::laughing: Morons. Very few of the "neighbors" have land that abuts the land that was logged and the land was not clear cut, yet they felt it was their right to somehow stop the logging operation. The idiots were danged lucky we fought to buy the land, dealt with what was at best an incompetent government official, and logged the place the way we did. I know for a fact there was a timber company right behind us on the contract list and they would have clear cut the place. We just did a selective cut and you can't really tell we timbered anything.
The "neighbor" thought we should not be using a public road for a logging operation. :laughing::laughing::laughing: You really do have to pity these fools except they do vote.
More than likely, the deputy that showed up on the call had a nice how ya do'n meeting with the loggers who he has known since school. One certainly better know what you are doing when selling timber. You can loose a bunch of money and I have seen very smart people who should know better sell for less than they should. But that is life. You can loose money buying/selling timber, a house, a car, or some nic nack on Ebay.
If VA has BMP, and the loggers follow them, then there is no recourse.
What is funny, sort of, is that I planted 500 saplings and I don't think one survived.
I replanted by the book but I think the deer ate the pine saplings. The areas that were heavy in pine before logging have now returned to pine and look pretty danged good. Glad I spent all that time replanting. Later,
Dan
dave1949
Super Star Member
As to the money involved, there are short-term gains possible at the cost of long-term productivity.
Yes, it takes longer and therefore costs more to do a selective harvest as a one-time event. Over the long haul though, that timber land will produce more income if it is logged correctly and selectively.
Some of it has to do with how much future value in board feet do trees, by species, have the potential to produce at given ages and conditions.
There are also tree genetics involved. Like people, not all trees are genetically equal in terms of growth rate, form and natural resistance to pests. Removing all trees over a certain diameter for example, indiscriminately removes the genetically best trees too. That means you are not allowing the best trees to survive and produce the majority of the seeds for future trees carrying those good genes as would happen naturally. The overall long-term effect is lowering the genetic quality, and consequently the future value, of the stand.
I don't pretend to think that I have the experience to walk through the woods and know which trees should stay and which should go with great accuracy. I do believe there are good loggers operating feller-bunchers that can though.
forgeblast
Elite Member
Dan I have to use Tubex tubes 5' to keep the deer from eating them to the ground. Bluex are ok but not as good as tubex.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Agreed. But at 90 years old, I think he is just looking at money NOW, cause he wont be around for the next harvest.
IF I owned woods, selective harvest would be the only thing I would do. Cause selectively harvesting is actually good for the woods.
Trees reach a certain age where their growth rate slows, and seedling rate slows. Thus not re-populating as much as younger trees.
These mature trees that are past their "prime" are the ones that need taken, to make room for younger trees to emerge instead of choking them out and sucking up the nutrients from the soil.
If done right, selective harvesting every 8-10 years provides nice income for as long as we need wood. And does the woods a favor too. If a woods is left to nature without harvesting, You end up with lots of nice massive trees, but once those die, you have a vary young woods that quickly gets overgrown with underbrush and will take decades to get back to a nice mature woods again.