Any M1 Garand experts here?

[dusty3030]

Is this old wive's tale still going around? First of all the Carbine is notoriously difficult to reload and while all the ammo (even during WWII) was non-corrosive most of what is available is the standard FMJ. Carbine ammo has been particularly difficult to get the last few years, though I did get a batch from CMP last year. The odds that an entire squad would go empty at the same time are virtually nil. There is not much time between when an ejected clip hits the ground and the rifle is back in battery, so any action is equally unlikely. A few years ago I worked the pits at a GC Garand match. This allowed me to be down range while roughly a squad worth of Garands fired 20 rounds each per section. The rules are set to require clip ejects and insertion. The muzzle reports of a dozen Garands is all I heard. Which was awesome....

Yeah, I can imagine most German infantry that survived the war were pretty much deaf as many MG 34's and MG 42's they always had firing near them. The 42 is horrible loud up close

 

[Soundguy]

This is one of those 'who you gonna believe, facts or stories

Fact: Garrand enbloc empties and clings then you reload, no topping off.

Story: No sound, no issue, never is a problem.


Some stories might be true, facts ARE true.

Squad tactics? Despite what movies show, solders are not always in full man, multi squad formation at all times when in contact with the enemy. Nam proved that.


As for carbines being difficult to reload? Maybee you'd is/was poorly maintained. Mine take mags as fast or faster than an AR. Maybee it is a practice/proficiency issue, or you had cheap mags, or damaged mag well?

I like being able to swap in a fresh mag without full reload and clearing my chamber.

When your carbine mag is empty with one in the chamber you can change out mags, if bad guy walks around corner with mag out, you can still pop jim, redo that with a garrand and you have to empty the chamber and get a new bloc in, if interuoted, I hope you have bayo affixed, he's close and unarmed.

Ever tried to load an enbloc with 3 rounds, kinda like stuffing mashed potatoes into a sock.. On the other hand, sticking a 3 round mag of carbine into a carbine simply works as intended.

Never had a problem finding carbine ammo. If a store or catalog don't have what I want, my reload bench does. Fun round, I have an automag III in 30 carbine.

Is this old wive's tale still going around?

To the first point Carbine is notoriously difficult to reload and while all the ammo (even during WWII) was non-corrosive most of what is available is the standard FMJ. Carbine ammo has been particularly difficult to get the last few years, though I did get a batch from CMP last year.

The odds that an entire squad would go empty at the same time are virtually nil. There is not much time between when an ejected clip hits the ground and the rifle is back in battery, so any action is equally unlikely.

A few years ago I worked the pits at a GC Garand match. This allowed me to be down range while roughly a squad worth of Garands fired 20 rounds each per section. The rules are set to require clip ejects and insertion. The muzzle reports of a dozen Garands is all I heard. Which was awesome....

 

[Garandman]

It's one of those "proof by performance" matters. An enemy soldier was betting his life that he was facing a lone rifleman who could not have another clip in place before the sound of the ejected clip hitting the ground reached his ears. I invite anyone who believes that legend to simply try it.

ccording to former German soldiers, the sound was inaudible during engagements and not particularly useful when heard, as other squad members might have been nearby ready to fire

The benefits of magazines and capacity were well understood as well as the disadvantages. Ordnance did not want an external magazine that could be lost. As the BAR and Carbine had external box magazines, experiments were conducted late in the war and the M14 is in many ways a "product improced" Garand.

The en bloc clip was a transition from the stripper clips used on the bolt action rifles of the day. As mentioned the rifle was originally chambered in .276 Pedersen and held 10 rounds. It added weight and complexity but was cheap and reliable.

The US Army was the first Army in the world to adopt a semiauto battle rifle in 1937. Most other organizations were concerned that soldiers would fire their basic load too quickly and ignored the firepower advantage.

For example the USMC conducted service rifle trials in late 1940 and officially selected the M1903 Springfield. This decision resulted in logistical problems for the rest of the war when the USMC changed their minds after seeing Army units equipped with Garands in action on Quadalcanal.

 

[Garandman]

Y'all have inspired me to continue reading the two volume set War Baby! About development and production of the Carbine.

 

[oldpilgrim]

The US Army was the first Army in the world to adopt a semiauto battle rifle in 1937. Most other organizations were concerned that soldiers would fire their basic load too quickly and ignored the firepower advantage.

The Garand was in direct competition with the rotary semiauto Johnson. The gov decided the Garand was less likely to fail due to it's more simple design. Not many were made, just enough for the gov trials.

I have my eye on a Johnson. I'm going to continue to pester the current owner.

 

[bcp]

No one mentioned another old M1 story, but probably mythical, too.

GI has a BAR, fires 8 semi-auto shots, then drops an M1 clip on a rock, and waits for the enemy to move while he is "reloading."

Bruce

 

[Garandman]

No one mentioned another old M1 story, but probably mythical, too.

GI has a BAR, fires 8 shots, then drops an M1 clip on a rock, and waits for the enemy to move while he is "reloading."

Everyone needs think through this instead of just repeating it.

 

[bcp]

That's why it is "mythical."

I don't think I've ever read it before, but I heard it in the 1940's or 50's.

I can't remember hearing many "pings" when there were a dozen or so guys beside me, all firing then reloading.

Kind of noisy. My ears still ring.

Bruce

 

[DuckSlayer1017]

All this talk just made me decide my next gun purchase:cool2:

 

[Garandman]

The Garand was in direct competition with the rotary semiauto Johnson. The gov decided the Garand was less likely to fail due to it's more simple design. Not many were made, just enough for the gov trials.

I have my eye on a Johnson. I'm going to continue to pester the current owner.

Melvin Johnson was a USMC Reserve Captain and Boston Lawyer. His rifle was not developed until after the Army had already standardized on the Garand. He did compete in the USMC service rifle trials, where it finished behind the Garand but I don't recall the finishing order.

Some people say that the Johnson wasn't fully considered because of politics, while others say it was considered only because of politics. It was one of many prototype designs that were never advanced to a state of production readiness.

Garand development was funded by the Army. When they were ready to produce tool room samples, Springfield Armory asked the Navy Department to contribute $10,000, which would have doubled the number of prototypes available. They declined. The USMC's decision was only reversed when Marines started writing home from Guadalcanal asking why they didn't have Garands as well and this lack of vision created logistical problems for the rest of the war.

Production of the Garand was one of the amazing stories of WWII. Production started at around 100 per day in 1940. Production reached over 1,000 per day in 1942 and over 3,000 per day by 1944. I was still buying new-in-wrap barrels until around 2005 and there are still a number of parts you can purchase new-in-wrapper.