Any pricing yet on the new E tractors?

[Williy]

macindude does the cold affect you car batteries for distance traveling?
One thing about the charging stations with an EV you have to make sure
if you want to travel they will be in you line of travel?? With gas or diesel
no problem stations are all over so no guessing where to find fuel

willy

 

[macindude]

I understand that and it took tesla 13 years to become profitable. And what most dont understand is that first month of profitability doesn't take away from the 13 years previous to that of straight losses. Do you think GM, Ford, and Chrysler can survive in that environment. Tesla has a brand to it that far exceeds any other EV manufacturer not to mention a CEOs name who most households have heard of. You can't say the same for the other manufacturers. Its precisely why they are mandating all new sales of EVs by whatever year it is. Mandating is just another word for (forcing) IF you owned GM would you want to continue to take losses on the bolt if you could just cut it and sell another SUV or truck. Pretty sure if you were the owner you would want to continue with what makes money. If people were adopting EVs then why mandate it?? Why not let the market drive what it wants. B?c the government knows the market will take to long in there eyes to move completely towards all EV's. Rivian is a dumpster fire so far. They will nee lots of money to stay alive. Ford just got over 9 Billion from the government. The governed brokered a deal between tesla and the bolt to use its charing network. Which is why they brought it back.

BTW dealers do make money selling cars. If they sold every car at a loss or breakeven. They would all go under.

Tesla also was a new company, and they had to invest in building factories, scaling manufacturing, building showrooms and service centers since they don't use dealers, etc. Existing manufacturers don't have any of that additional time and expense needed, and they also don't need to do more R&D to build the whole car, only the drivetrain. They also can continue selling gas cars while they're working on electrification. GM and Ford are going to be fine.

Chrysler/Stellantis, maybe not. They had a CEO who badmouthed their own EVs, and just flat-out did nothing for a really long time. They are WAY behind the curve now as a result, they don't have as many other vehicles in the first place, and they're going to have the most difficult time of any of the major manufacturers over the next 20 years. Burying one's head in the sand and remaining the same is rarely a sound business strategy, and they're going to pay for it.

For what it's worth, the Bolt predates any of the mandates. And I don't agree with the mandates either. I think we've reached a point where EV adoption has reached critical mass, and there will probably always be some use cases where a purely electric vehicle isn't the best solution.

 

[macindude]

macindude does the cold affect you car batteries for distance traveling?
One thing about the charging stations with an EV you have to make sure
if you want to travel they will be in you line of travel?? With gas or diesel
no problem stations are all over so no guessing where to find fuel

willy

This got really long, so here's the tl;dr:
1) Cold affects all cars, EVs more so than others, Teslas less so than other EVs
2) Tesla charging stations are easy to find, work well, and are usually in line of travel. Most other manufacturers are adopting the Tesla standard for charging as well.
3) There are some things about my Tesla that make it WAY nicer than a gas car in the winter.

Cold affects all cars in some ways (more aerodynamic drag due to the thicker air, more rolling resistance, etc). It's just that with an engine, you can finally take all the energy you've been wasting in the form of the (Otto or Diesel) power cycle inefficiency and put that waste heat to good use by warming the cabin with some of it.

The things that are unique to EVs are that chemical batteries slow down in the cold, and the motors are efficient enough that they produce very little waste heat to capture for cabin heating, so additional energy is needed to heat the cabin.

On the other hand, EVs also let you warm them up off of "shore power" when they're plugged in in your garage, and they emit no carbon monoxide, so you can start them up and let them warm their batteries and the cabin without using any battery power while they're sitting in your closed garage.

Tesla has done particularly well on a lot of things here. I *LOVE* how fast their heater is - From when I turn on the climate in the mobile app, the cabin will go from 20ºF to 70ºF in two minutes flat! No more driving a cold car! They also have a heat pump, which is much more efficient than resistive heating except at truly extreme temperatures. Finally, starting in 2020-21 depending on the model, they have something they call the "octo-valve" which basically takes heat from anywhere it's being produced, and puts it anywhere it's needed. So, if the motor is getting hot, they can take that heat and put it in the battery or the cabin... Or vice versa. It's a really good design.

So, as a result, while cold weather does affect my range, it isn't by enough to matter. I might need an extra 5 minutes of charging here and there on a longer trip, but since with an EV I leave the house with a full "tank" every day, it generally isn't any different in the winter except that I'm warm and comfy right away. And I *really* don't miss having to stand outside in the cold pumping gas every few days!

Also with Tesla, their Supercharger network is extensive, well-maintained, and super easy to use (you just plug it in). The in-car navigation automatically routes you to Superchargers if you'll need to charge. If you're way off the beaten path you may have to go a bit out of your way, but it's quite easy overall. I would say that within 5 years it won't be any harder to find a charging station than it is to find diesel - Not every station has it, but it'll be ubiquitous enough to not really worry about it.

Also, in case you haven't heard, over the past several months nearly the entire industry has signed on to support NACS, Tesla's charging standard, and will be equipping their cars with the Tesla charge port within the next couple of years. That's a HUGE improvement for EVs in general. The other charging networks simply aren't nearly as well designed (in terms of locations), maintained, or reliable as Tesla's network. The largest non-Tesla network has also announced that they'll start putting Tesla plugs on their chargers. Before this there were three competing "standards" which was going to be really bad for everyone. Having a single standard like this is a big deal and will make charging much easier for everyone.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Back to the question... Any pricing yet on the new 75HP electric tractors from CNH?

 

[Williy]

I don't worry about gassing up in the cold as I only need to fill up
once a month

willy

 

[edgarrian]

This got really long, so here's the tl;dr:
1) Cold affects all cars, EVs more so than others, Teslas less so than other EVs
2) Tesla charging stations are easy to find, work well, and are usually in line of travel. Most other manufacturers are adopting the Tesla standard for charging as well.
3) There are some things about my Tesla that make it WAY nicer than a gas car in the winter.

Cold affects all cars in some ways (more aerodynamic drag due to the thicker air, more rolling resistance, etc). It's just that with an engine, you can finally take all the energy you've been wasting in the form of the (Otto or Diesel) power cycle inefficiency and put that waste heat to good use by warming the cabin with some of it.

The things that are unique to EVs are that chemical batteries slow down in the cold, and the motors are efficient enough that they produce very little waste heat to capture for cabin heating, so additional energy is needed to heat the cabin.

On the other hand, EVs also let you warm them up off of "shore power" when they're plugged in in your garage, and they emit no carbon monoxide, so you can start them up and let them warm their batteries and the cabin without using any battery power while they're sitting in your closed garage.

Tesla has done particularly well on a lot of things here. I *LOVE* how fast their heater is - From when I turn on the climate in the mobile app, the cabin will go from 20ºF to 70ºF in two minutes flat! No more driving a cold car! They also have a heat pump, which is much more efficient than resistive heating except at truly extreme temperatures. Finally, starting in 2020-21 depending on the model, they have something they call the "octo-valve" which basically takes heat from anywhere it's being produced, and puts it anywhere it's needed. So, if the motor is getting hot, they can take that heat and put it in the battery or the cabin... Or vice versa. It's a really good design.

So, as a result, while cold weather does affect my range, it isn't by enough to matter. I might need an extra 5 minutes of charging here and there on a longer trip, but since with an EV I leave the house with a full "tank" every day, it generally isn't any different in the winter except that I'm warm and comfy right away. And I *really* don't miss having to stand outside in the cold pumping gas every few days!

Also with Tesla, their Supercharger network is extensive, well-maintained, and super easy to use (you just plug it in). The in-car navigation automatically routes you to Superchargers if you'll need to charge. If you're way off the beaten path you may have to go a bit out of your way, but it's quite easy overall. I would say that within 5 years it won't be any harder to find a charging station than it is to find diesel - Not every station has it, but it'll be ubiquitous enough to not really worry about it.

Also, in case you haven't heard, over the past several months nearly the entire industry has signed on to support NACS, Tesla's charging standard, and will be equipping their cars with the Tesla charge port within the next couple of years. That's a HUGE improvement for EVs in general. The other charging networks simply aren't nearly as well designed (in terms of locations), maintained, or reliable as Tesla's network. The largest non-Tesla network has also announced that they'll start putting Tesla plugs on their chargers. Before this there were three competing "standards" which was going to be really bad for everyone. Having a single standard like this is a big deal and will make charging much easier for everyone.

Thats precisely why the chevy bolt is not getting cut from production. They are integrating with tesla chargers as all manufacturers will have to do if they want to compete. WE have considered an EV but not sure about it yet. We generally keep our vehicles for a long time. 10 years if not longer. Im not liking how much it costs to replace a battery. I need more data on the lifetime of batteries. Maybe you have have some input on this as well.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

I don't worry about gassing up in the cold as I only need to fill up
once a month

willy

Depending on how much you use your tractor, that isn't such a great idea. Isn't it especially important to keep the tank full in winter? I try to keep my tank full as possible 12 months a year, but especially in winter. I can use a few gallons in a hurry plowing snow.

I don't know about 75 hp tractors, but I'll bet that the compact utility tractors will go electric sooner rather than later. Diesel engines are expensive and complex to build and the nuisance of filling up with portable containers won't be missed. Solectrac has been selling a tractor in the 25 hp range for years now. People love the quiet power.

 

[Williy]

Our tractor tank never gets below 1/2 way. Like to keep it full
if its gonna set for a few days as it never sits idle for over 3 days
Our car always gets a refill when it gets near the 1/2 way mark

willy

 

[macindude]

Thats precisely why the chevy bolt is not getting cut from production. They are integrating with tesla chargers as all manufacturers will have to do if they want to compete. WE have considered an EV but not sure about it yet. We generally keep our vehicles for a long time. 10 years if not longer. Im not liking how much it costs to replace a battery. I need more data on the lifetime of batteries. Maybe you have have some input on this as well.

You're absolutely right about the Tesla charging integration being important. The only legacy automakers that haven't yet announced that they're switching to it are VW, Mitsubishi, Mazda, and Stellantis (Chrysler).

As for the batteries, some EV batteries have been crap in certain situations. For example, early Nissan Leaf batteries were particularly susceptible to heat, and Nissan replaced a lot of Leaf batteries under warranty in places like Arizona.

Now that the various manufacturers have tried a bunch of different things, a few patterns are clear. First of all, a good battery management system is crucial, and liquid cooling is the way to go. It's also important that end users understand how to best use their batteries for longevity. Many Lithium batteries don't like to sit at 100% for long periods of time, so having a way to communicate that to the user and allow them to easily control it is important. Tesla and GM have both done particularly well with this stuff.

My car uses the Lithium-Iron-Phosphate chemistry ("LFP") that can be charged to 100% all the time with no ill effects, so that's what I do. It's also supposed to still be at 80% of its original capacity after 750,000 miles, so I'm not expecting to ever have to replace it. So far, in a little over 50,000 miles I'm down 5.87%; Tesla's batteries (and likely others, there's just less data on the others) seem to degrade the most in the first 50,000 miles. There are some Teslas out there now with over a half million miles on them.

Also, there's generally not a need for a full pack replacement. In fact, I've heard that GM no longer even has a SKU for a full pack for the Bolt - Technicians are to diagnose and replace individual modules within the pack instead. The whole battery replacement thing is largely a myth that has been stoked by those who spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) about EVs, and there is a LOT of that kind of stuff out there. But, I've been driving electric for 9 years now and I'm really not worried about it at all.

 

[Tracmzb]

Any info on the electric tractors?