Any pricing yet on the new E tractors?

   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #81  
I was listening to Shaun Haney on www.RealAgriculture.com and he was doing reports from the giant Agritechnica show in Germany. He said at the last show before covid cancelled it out last year, all the manufacturers were showing off their electric dreams, like John Deere had a bunch of fake electric tractors with no motors or batteries in them because they didn't even have the technology yet.
He said this year there was none of that. He said it was all new diesel powered tractors and their focus has shifted towards adding new tech to the tractors such as automation instead of repowering them.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors?
  • Thread Starter
#82  
I was listening to Shaun Haney on www.RealAgriculture.com and he was doing reports from the giant Agritechnica show in Germany. He said at the last show before covid cancelled it out last year, all the manufacturers were showing off their electric dreams, like John Deere had a bunch of fake electric tractors with no motors or batteries in them because they didn't even have the technology yet.
He said this year there was none of that. He said it was all new diesel powered tractors and their focus has shifted towards adding new tech to the tractors such as automation instead of repowering them.
Seems to be the way many are heading now. The dream is over
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #83  
I just read in Today's Trucking the big electric class 8 truck builders are starting to lay off workers. Another sign? LOL
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #84  
I can tell you all with absolute certainty, when they will no longer sell me gas or diesel, I will go back to horse and buggy.
I'm lucky enough to be in an area I can still get everything I need to live within the distance I can travel by horse.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #85  
Yes, but what will deliver the goods to those local locations ? There's the real problem.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #86  
Yes, but what will deliver the goods to those local locations ? There's the real problem.
All the big mega fleets that are on board with the governments stupid agendas.

They can play with their electric and hydrogen junk. Not me. LOL
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #87  
All the big mega fleets that are on board with the governments stupid agendas.

They can play with their electric and hydrogen junk. Not me. LOL
Recently 3884 dealerships from all brands of vehicles sent a letter to the white house saying its gone to far. People aren't buying electric vehicles. So there is hope. Hopefully
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #88  
Just a few thoughts from someone who actually has experience with EVs... Five so far (2 plug-in hybrid, 3 fully electric). I would really like an electric tractor for my own use, mainly because mine is noisy as hell and I just finished rebuilding the engine! There are definitely use cases where electric tractors make a lot of sense, while there are others where it's a terrible idea. There's a lot of myths on electrification from both sides of the issue, so I wanted to drop by with my engineer mindset and personal experience to correct a few...

Some arguments for electrifying tractors:
1) Lower maintenance costs. There's simply far fewer moving parts. Engines have pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts, camshafts, lifters, pushrods, valves, carbs/fuel injectors, fuel and oil systems. And then there's transmissions, differentials, etc to get power to the wheels. And then there's shafts, gears, belts, etc getting power to where it's finally used. All of those parts wear, most of them require lubrication, and the vibration of an engine causes wear over time as well.
2) The additional weight of batteries can be very helpful for tractors, especially if it's done in such a way that at least some of the extra weight can be useful for balance as well. For example, if you're using a front end loader, where you're normally going to have some weight added to the rear of the tractor, instead of a weight bucket, make a 3-point aux battery pack instead. That would also largely ameliorate any charging difficulties - When the aux battery is depleted, drop it and pick up a freshly charged one.
3) Electrifying attachments as close to the point the power is needed can result in far lower mechanical losses in addition to lower maintenance costs mentioned above. FWIW, I believe that a successful electric tractor still needs a standard mechanical PTO, hydraulic system, etc to retain compatibility with existing mechanically driven attachments.

Some arguments against:
A) Tractors run at a relatively constant power load for long periods of time and will gain little to no efficiency from regenerative braking the way cars do, because cars are always stopping and starting.
B) Access to charging might be more difficult - This is a spot where the use cases are important.

Some things that should be done to make electrified tractors successful:
I) Battery life must be excellent. To achieve this, a good Battery Management System with liquid temperature control is important.
II) User interface must be designed to give proper warnings when battery level is getting low so that the machine can be driven to a spot where the battery can be swapped and/or charged. It should also have good power consumption meters so that the user can plan ahead.
III) The industry must use existing EV standards, and learn from the automotive industry, or they're going to have a rough go of it.

Use cases where electrification makes sense:
a) Home users who aren't using the machine every day and may even have long pauses in between uses. No use letting an engine rust. These users also would generally have the lowest demand for runtime. I'm in this group.
b) Farm use where there is daily downtime that can be used for charging, but enough daily use that a faster charging station and/or additional batteries (like the 3-point battery pack mentioned above, or a forklift-style battery swapping machine) are a worthwhile investment to take advantage of some of the other advantages of electrification

Use cases where electrification does not make sense: Any operation that needs 24/7 runtime (like giant farms using "combine cowboys" for 24-hour harvests) or is geographically large enough that they transport equipment on a semi trailer to the point of use. These *could* be done, but would require additional investment in large mobile batteries and/or battery swap stations and/or charging equipment. It could be done, but if it is it should be the last thing that gets done.

On to some replies:

I remember 40 ? Years ago GE had an electric garden tractor size lawnmower. It must have been battery powered, idk and it didn't matter to me. It was just as stupid to me as a little kid as I think it is today. 😆
I know a guy who has one, and loves it. It's actually a pretty good design. I don't think it sold particularly well or for particularly long, and I think only a few thousand were built but even today they have quite a following and a lot of them are still in use.

It would be something if the battery would even last 10 years
I don't know how long it takes to charge but say you get farmers
in the same area with 20 tractors what will happen to the electric
company will the power lines still be up???
EV's are really a JOKE! They cost more than a gas car and the
electric IHMO is not that much cheaper driving than a gas and
the emissions are not less because of what is used to produce
the power the ev. Compare the cost of the ev + hookup etc and
then a gas car in the long run I can't see how an ev is better and
with an ev you are restricts to where you can go!

The battery on my car is supposed to go 750,000 miles before it gets down to 80% of original capacity. I'll probably be dead by then. Batteries simply don't need to be changed out like that if they're properly designed using the correct materials and modern BMS.

The "grid won't support it" thing is largely BS. The grid supports a lot more than we use most of the day, because the grid has to support the large amount of power used in the evening (google "duck curve" for more info). Late at night and for a good chunk of the day, there's a lot of power available that isn't being used - That's why power companies have time-of-use plans to encourage users to flatten their duck curve.

Electric cars are now right about at the point where the cost to make them is on par with the cost of a gas car. In terms of operating them, your "humble opinion" on fueling costs doesn't match the facts - My wife's (gas) car costs 5-7 times as much in fuel per mile compared to my (electric) car's power usage. Emissions *are* less even though they're at the power company, even if the power company is 100% coal, because the power company's processes are more efficient than an internal combustion engine which is only 25-30% efficient. In addition, as the grid gets cleaner, all of the electric vehicles that fuel from it also get cleaner, whereas gas cars are the cleanest on the day you buy them and will never improve.

The "EV hookup" is not very expensive. My mother drives an EV and uses a charger she got with the car (free) and plugs it into a standard wall outlet. I use a level 2 charger that costs about $400-500. It's long since paid for itself. With the Tesla Supercharger network, I'm really not restricted in where I can go, and with the other manufacturers mostly having signed on to the NACS coalition now, this should be a complete non-issue for anyone in about 3 years.

And I've gotta say, I *LOVE* EV driving. That was a big surprise to me - I kinda got the first one just for the hell of it, but I quickly got hooked. It's smooth and quiet. I leave the house with a full "tank" every day. I never have to stop to fuel up unless I'm on a road trip. I never have to stand outside in the heat of summer or the cold of winter while fueling. The performance is fantastic. It's FUN! The environmental benefits or lack thereof don't even matter to me - I'll never go back to internal combustion. I've electrified everything except my tractor, my wife's car, and my airplane (which is a whole different can of worms).

Hope this is interesting to at least some of you. ;)
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #89  
Recently 3884 dealerships from all brands of vehicles sent a letter to the white house saying its gone to far. People aren't buying electric vehicles. So there is hope. Hopefully
Dealers don't make money selling cars. They make money on maintenance - So they're very afraid of electric vehicles. People aren't buying electric vehicles *from dealers*. The Tesla Model Y is the top selling vehicle worldwide so far this year, so people are most certainly buying EVs.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #90  
Dealers don't make money selling cars. They make money on maintenance - So they're very afraid of electric vehicles. People aren't buying electric vehicles *from dealers*. The Tesla Model Y is the top selling vehicle worldwide so far this year, so people are most certainly buying EVs.
I understand that and it took tesla 13 years to become profitable. And what most dont understand is that first month of profitability doesn't take away from the 13 years previous to that of straight losses. Do you think GM, Ford, and Chrysler can survive in that environment. Tesla has a brand to it that far exceeds any other EV manufacturer not to mention a CEOs name who most households have heard of. You can't say the same for the other manufacturers. Its precisely why they are mandating all new sales of EVs by whatever year it is. Mandating is just another word for (forcing) IF you owned GM would you want to continue to take losses on the bolt if you could just cut it and sell another SUV or truck. Pretty sure if you were the owner you would want to continue with what makes money. If people were adopting EVs then why mandate it?? Why not let the market drive what it wants. B?c the government knows the market will take to long in there eyes to move completely towards all EV's. Rivian is a dumpster fire so far. They will nee lots of money to stay alive. Ford just got over 9 Billion from the government. The governed brokered a deal between tesla and the bolt to use its charing network. Which is why they brought it back.

BTW dealers do make money selling cars. If they sold every car at a loss or breakeven. They would all go under.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #91  
macindude does the cold affect you car batteries for distance traveling?
One thing about the charging stations with an EV you have to make sure
if you want to travel they will be in you line of travel?? With gas or diesel
no problem stations are all over so no guessing where to find fuel

willy
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #92  
I understand that and it took tesla 13 years to become profitable. And what most dont understand is that first month of profitability doesn't take away from the 13 years previous to that of straight losses. Do you think GM, Ford, and Chrysler can survive in that environment. Tesla has a brand to it that far exceeds any other EV manufacturer not to mention a CEOs name who most households have heard of. You can't say the same for the other manufacturers. Its precisely why they are mandating all new sales of EVs by whatever year it is. Mandating is just another word for (forcing) IF you owned GM would you want to continue to take losses on the bolt if you could just cut it and sell another SUV or truck. Pretty sure if you were the owner you would want to continue with what makes money. If people were adopting EVs then why mandate it?? Why not let the market drive what it wants. B?c the government knows the market will take to long in there eyes to move completely towards all EV's. Rivian is a dumpster fire so far. They will nee lots of money to stay alive. Ford just got over 9 Billion from the government. The governed brokered a deal between tesla and the bolt to use its charing network. Which is why they brought it back.

BTW dealers do make money selling cars. If they sold every car at a loss or breakeven. They would all go under.
Tesla also was a new company, and they had to invest in building factories, scaling manufacturing, building showrooms and service centers since they don't use dealers, etc. Existing manufacturers don't have any of that additional time and expense needed, and they also don't need to do more R&D to build the whole car, only the drivetrain. They also can continue selling gas cars while they're working on electrification. GM and Ford are going to be fine.

Chrysler/Stellantis, maybe not. They had a CEO who badmouthed their own EVs, and just flat-out did nothing for a really long time. They are WAY behind the curve now as a result, they don't have as many other vehicles in the first place, and they're going to have the most difficult time of any of the major manufacturers over the next 20 years. Burying one's head in the sand and remaining the same is rarely a sound business strategy, and they're going to pay for it.

For what it's worth, the Bolt predates any of the mandates. And I don't agree with the mandates either. I think we've reached a point where EV adoption has reached critical mass, and there will probably always be some use cases where a purely electric vehicle isn't the best solution.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #93  
macindude does the cold affect you car batteries for distance traveling?
One thing about the charging stations with an EV you have to make sure
if you want to travel they will be in you line of travel?? With gas or diesel
no problem stations are all over so no guessing where to find fuel

willy
This got really long, so here's the tl;dr:
1) Cold affects all cars, EVs more so than others, Teslas less so than other EVs
2) Tesla charging stations are easy to find, work well, and are usually in line of travel. Most other manufacturers are adopting the Tesla standard for charging as well.
3) There are some things about my Tesla that make it WAY nicer than a gas car in the winter.

Cold affects all cars in some ways (more aerodynamic drag due to the thicker air, more rolling resistance, etc). It's just that with an engine, you can finally take all the energy you've been wasting in the form of the (Otto or Diesel) power cycle inefficiency and put that waste heat to good use by warming the cabin with some of it.

The things that are unique to EVs are that chemical batteries slow down in the cold, and the motors are efficient enough that they produce very little waste heat to capture for cabin heating, so additional energy is needed to heat the cabin.

On the other hand, EVs also let you warm them up off of "shore power" when they're plugged in in your garage, and they emit no carbon monoxide, so you can start them up and let them warm their batteries and the cabin without using any battery power while they're sitting in your closed garage.

Tesla has done particularly well on a lot of things here. I *LOVE* how fast their heater is - From when I turn on the climate in the mobile app, the cabin will go from 20ºF to 70ºF in two minutes flat! No more driving a cold car! They also have a heat pump, which is much more efficient than resistive heating except at truly extreme temperatures. Finally, starting in 2020-21 depending on the model, they have something they call the "octo-valve" which basically takes heat from anywhere it's being produced, and puts it anywhere it's needed. So, if the motor is getting hot, they can take that heat and put it in the battery or the cabin... Or vice versa. It's a really good design.

So, as a result, while cold weather does affect my range, it isn't by enough to matter. I might need an extra 5 minutes of charging here and there on a longer trip, but since with an EV I leave the house with a full "tank" every day, it generally isn't any different in the winter except that I'm warm and comfy right away. And I *really* don't miss having to stand outside in the cold pumping gas every few days!

Also with Tesla, their Supercharger network is extensive, well-maintained, and super easy to use (you just plug it in). The in-car navigation automatically routes you to Superchargers if you'll need to charge. If you're way off the beaten path you may have to go a bit out of your way, but it's quite easy overall. I would say that within 5 years it won't be any harder to find a charging station than it is to find diesel - Not every station has it, but it'll be ubiquitous enough to not really worry about it.

Also, in case you haven't heard, over the past several months nearly the entire industry has signed on to support NACS, Tesla's charging standard, and will be equipping their cars with the Tesla charge port within the next couple of years. That's a HUGE improvement for EVs in general. The other charging networks simply aren't nearly as well designed (in terms of locations), maintained, or reliable as Tesla's network. The largest non-Tesla network has also announced that they'll start putting Tesla plugs on their chargers. Before this there were three competing "standards" which was going to be really bad for everyone. Having a single standard like this is a big deal and will make charging much easier for everyone.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors?
  • Thread Starter
#94  
Back to the question... Any pricing yet on the new 75HP electric tractors from CNH?
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #95  
I don't worry about gassing up in the cold as I only need to fill up
once a month

willy
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #96  
This got really long, so here's the tl;dr:
1) Cold affects all cars, EVs more so than others, Teslas less so than other EVs
2) Tesla charging stations are easy to find, work well, and are usually in line of travel. Most other manufacturers are adopting the Tesla standard for charging as well.
3) There are some things about my Tesla that make it WAY nicer than a gas car in the winter.

Cold affects all cars in some ways (more aerodynamic drag due to the thicker air, more rolling resistance, etc). It's just that with an engine, you can finally take all the energy you've been wasting in the form of the (Otto or Diesel) power cycle inefficiency and put that waste heat to good use by warming the cabin with some of it.

The things that are unique to EVs are that chemical batteries slow down in the cold, and the motors are efficient enough that they produce very little waste heat to capture for cabin heating, so additional energy is needed to heat the cabin.

On the other hand, EVs also let you warm them up off of "shore power" when they're plugged in in your garage, and they emit no carbon monoxide, so you can start them up and let them warm their batteries and the cabin without using any battery power while they're sitting in your closed garage.

Tesla has done particularly well on a lot of things here. I *LOVE* how fast their heater is - From when I turn on the climate in the mobile app, the cabin will go from 20ºF to 70ºF in two minutes flat! No more driving a cold car! They also have a heat pump, which is much more efficient than resistive heating except at truly extreme temperatures. Finally, starting in 2020-21 depending on the model, they have something they call the "octo-valve" which basically takes heat from anywhere it's being produced, and puts it anywhere it's needed. So, if the motor is getting hot, they can take that heat and put it in the battery or the cabin... Or vice versa. It's a really good design.

So, as a result, while cold weather does affect my range, it isn't by enough to matter. I might need an extra 5 minutes of charging here and there on a longer trip, but since with an EV I leave the house with a full "tank" every day, it generally isn't any different in the winter except that I'm warm and comfy right away. And I *really* don't miss having to stand outside in the cold pumping gas every few days!

Also with Tesla, their Supercharger network is extensive, well-maintained, and super easy to use (you just plug it in). The in-car navigation automatically routes you to Superchargers if you'll need to charge. If you're way off the beaten path you may have to go a bit out of your way, but it's quite easy overall. I would say that within 5 years it won't be any harder to find a charging station than it is to find diesel - Not every station has it, but it'll be ubiquitous enough to not really worry about it.

Also, in case you haven't heard, over the past several months nearly the entire industry has signed on to support NACS, Tesla's charging standard, and will be equipping their cars with the Tesla charge port within the next couple of years. That's a HUGE improvement for EVs in general. The other charging networks simply aren't nearly as well designed (in terms of locations), maintained, or reliable as Tesla's network. The largest non-Tesla network has also announced that they'll start putting Tesla plugs on their chargers. Before this there were three competing "standards" which was going to be really bad for everyone. Having a single standard like this is a big deal and will make charging much easier for everyone.
Thats precisely why the chevy bolt is not getting cut from production. They are integrating with tesla chargers as all manufacturers will have to do if they want to compete. WE have considered an EV but not sure about it yet. We generally keep our vehicles for a long time. 10 years if not longer. Im not liking how much it costs to replace a battery. I need more data on the lifetime of batteries. Maybe you have have some input on this as well.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #97  
I don't worry about gassing up in the cold as I only need to fill up
once a month

willy
Depending on how much you use your tractor, that isn't such a great idea. Isn't it especially important to keep the tank full in winter? I try to keep my tank full as possible 12 months a year, but especially in winter. I can use a few gallons in a hurry plowing snow.

I don't know about 75 hp tractors, but I'll bet that the compact utility tractors will go electric sooner rather than later. Diesel engines are expensive and complex to build and the nuisance of filling up with portable containers won't be missed. Solectrac has been selling a tractor in the 25 hp range for years now. People love the quiet power.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #98  
Our tractor tank never gets below 1/2 way. Like to keep it full
if its gonna set for a few days as it never sits idle for over 3 days
Our car always gets a refill when it gets near the 1/2 way mark

willy
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #99  
Thats precisely why the chevy bolt is not getting cut from production. They are integrating with tesla chargers as all manufacturers will have to do if they want to compete. WE have considered an EV but not sure about it yet. We generally keep our vehicles for a long time. 10 years if not longer. Im not liking how much it costs to replace a battery. I need more data on the lifetime of batteries. Maybe you have have some input on this as well.
You're absolutely right about the Tesla charging integration being important. The only legacy automakers that haven't yet announced that they're switching to it are VW, Mitsubishi, Mazda, and Stellantis (Chrysler).

As for the batteries, some EV batteries have been crap in certain situations. For example, early Nissan Leaf batteries were particularly susceptible to heat, and Nissan replaced a lot of Leaf batteries under warranty in places like Arizona.

Now that the various manufacturers have tried a bunch of different things, a few patterns are clear. First of all, a good battery management system is crucial, and liquid cooling is the way to go. It's also important that end users understand how to best use their batteries for longevity. Many Lithium batteries don't like to sit at 100% for long periods of time, so having a way to communicate that to the user and allow them to easily control it is important. Tesla and GM have both done particularly well with this stuff.

My car uses the Lithium-Iron-Phosphate chemistry ("LFP") that can be charged to 100% all the time with no ill effects, so that's what I do. It's also supposed to still be at 80% of its original capacity after 750,000 miles, so I'm not expecting to ever have to replace it. So far, in a little over 50,000 miles I'm down 5.87%; Tesla's batteries (and likely others, there's just less data on the others) seem to degrade the most in the first 50,000 miles. There are some Teslas out there now with over a half million miles on them.

Also, there's generally not a need for a full pack replacement. In fact, I've heard that GM no longer even has a SKU for a full pack for the Bolt - Technicians are to diagnose and replace individual modules within the pack instead. The whole battery replacement thing is largely a myth that has been stoked by those who spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) about EVs, and there is a LOT of that kind of stuff out there. But, I've been driving electric for 9 years now and I'm really not worried about it at all.
 
   / Any pricing yet on the new E tractors? #100  
Any info on the electric tractors?
 

Marketplace Items

500 BBL FRAC TANK (A58214)
500 BBL FRAC TANK...
500 BBL FRAC TANK (A58214)
500 BBL FRAC TANK...
UNUSED PAIR OF MINI RUBBER TRACKS (A52706)
UNUSED PAIR OF...
KIVEL 48" PALLET FORKS 3500 LB CAP (A60430)
KIVEL 48" PALLET...
12FT X 20FT STEEL CARPORT (A58214)
12FT X 20FT STEEL...
2008 CATERPILLAR 320DL EXCAVATOR (A60429)
2008 CATERPILLAR...
 
Top