Anyone Build or Convert an Existing Bucket Into A 4-in-1 Bucket?

[Fxfymn413]

I have the chance to pick up a QA bucket from a skid steer for little or no cost and I thought that a DYI conversion to a 4-in-1 bucket might be an interesting project. I searched the forums for others who have posted about this and could not come up with anything, so I'm throwing it out there to see if anyone has attempted this and can offer any advice on what to look out for.

I have access to very low cost drops from a friend's steel fab shop and a quick look at the Surplus Center site tells me I'm looking at around $500.00 all in to get it done. Knowing myself I'm probably going to take the better part of two weeks to fab it as well. Is it worth it?

 

[amhicks21]

I guess theres a bunch of variables that im curious about. What machine are you planning on building it for? If its for your 4060 you should consider that the extra weight and length of a 4 in 1 made out of a skid steer bucket is going to not be fun to use at all. Second, did you include the cost of a pilot operated lock/check valve? If you rely on spool valves to hold pressure, you'll have a bunch of leakage and the jaw will just flop around unless you're repeatedly bumping the close button. Typically these valves are about 300 bucks. I modified a tractor bucket to work similar to a 4 in 1 quite a while ago and ultimately, I didnt like it. It had some usefulness but not enough to offset how much worse it functioned as a normal bucket. Ultimately, I cut it apart and repurposed the parts in to this grapple and cutting edge extension. The grapple mounts in to a 2" receiver tube and is removable because even the 50ish lb's of the grapple is noticeable in a negative way. I'm not specifically trying to talk you out of it, but i'd hate to see you put in all that work just to hate the outcome.

 

[Rustyiron]

I'm with amhicks21 above.
I had a 4 in 1 bucket and it was heavy in places that a regular bucket is not. There are about 3 completely different forces that a 4 in 1 can have beyond digging/scooping.
1 Clamping, 2 back dragging with the open now 2nd cutting edge.
3 Dozing with the now 3rd cutting edge
Each edge needs further support. For example the "floor" of a purpose built 4/1 bucket is 2 layers thick with a bend in it creating a baffle type effect that allows you to drag backwards with great cutting effect because of the angle. Same goes for the dozer edge area that is heavily reinforced.
Not saying that you can't do it, but just reinforcements to the left and right hinge area (on each half of the "clam") would be massive. Then there's the side panels of the bucket....
Sorry to be Debbie downer, and if you're use and expectations are light duty it will be a fun project.

 

[Vigo327]

I am planning to build one but have not started yet. I have some 'different' design ideas about how a 4n1 should work (for me).

As for a cheap pilot operated check valve / holding valve, i do know of one.. I had to dig around to figure out that thats what this was, but since then they've updated the listing to make it at least somewhat obvious that that's what it was. Before you would have to be like me and use all your internet skills to deduce it.

I ordered one but won't get it for a month.
Unclearly labeled load holding valve.

 

[Fxfymn413]

Thanks guys! Getting informed opinions is exactly why I posted. I enjoy doing the fab work, but if the end result doesn't serve a purpose than it is not worth the effort or cost.

To be honest I don't really have a great need or use for the bucket, but being of thrifty Yankee heritage the thought of getting the bucket at a bargain price is what got me thinking about this.

I am aware of the needed additional support and as I said I have a very cheap source of drops, so that could be accomplished using a grid type pattern and a piece of plate. I thought about just buying a cutting edge to weld on to the bottom of the vertical piece as well.

But, I think you are both correct and it's just not worth the effort. I may still get the bucket to add to the fleet since it has a much larger "floor" area than the standard bucket and would be handy to use for picking up the piles of weeds, etc. the DW generates with her gardening.

Amhicks21 I like your grapple. I built mine on my pallet forks and use it almost daily. It is great for lifting logs, brush, etc. as well as "holding" objects on the forks while moving them. I use the remotes to operate it since the third function is just too quick and forceful.

 

[Rustyiron]

I'd get the great deal bucket anyway
This way you can change your mind later about the project

 

[ovrszd]

I'm with amhicks21 above.
I had a 4 in 1 bucket and it was heavy in places that a regular bucket is not. There are about 3 completely different forces that a 4 in 1 can have beyond digging/scooping.
1 Clamping, 2 back dragging with the open now 2nd cutting edge.
3 Dozing with the now 3rd cutting edge
Each edge needs further support. For example the "floor" of a purpose built 4/1 bucket is 2 layers thick with a bend in it creating a baffle type effect that allows you to drag backwards with great cutting effect because of the angle. Same goes for the dozer edge area that is heavily reinforced.
Not saying that you can't do it, but just reinforcements to the left and right hinge area (on each half of the "clam") would be massive. Then there's the side panels of the bucket....
Sorry to be Debbie downer, and if you're use and expectations are light duty it will be a fun project.

Truth.

I'm anxious to see what is built though!!!

 

[ovrszd]

I bought a used Bobcat Lo-Pro bucket and homemade a dual claw Grapple on it.

My Ford TLB has a 4n1 bucket.

The Lo-Pro with Grapple is ten times more useful.

The most used functions of the 4n1 is backdragging using the apron open, and dozing with the apron open.

 

[4570Man]

A 4-1 isn’t high on my use list anyway but if I wanted one I’d sell the project bucket and just buy one. Trying covert one would be worse than starting from scratch imo.

 

[ovrszd]

A 4-1 isn’t high on my use list anyway but if I wanted one I’d sell the project bucket and just buy one. Trying covert one would be worse than starting from scratch imo.

The back wall of my 4n1 is brutally strong. If you removed the apron it would just look like a dozer blade including a cutting edge on the bottom.

 

[4570Man]

The back wall of my 4n1 is brutally strong. If you removed the apron it would just look like a dozer blade including a cutting edge on the bottom.

With all the reinforcements you’d have to make to a regular bucket you’d be better off just starting from scratch IMO. I’ve seen used 4-1 buckets for $2500. It would cost thar much to build one even not counting your labor for anything.

 

[npalen]

Some pics of a Land Pride bucket for BX Kubota models. I modified it slightly so that it can also be used on the 3PH to add load carrying capacity as well as counterbalance. Nice thing about running it on the 3PH is visibility for the operator.

 

[airbiscuit]

I would leave the bucket as is and install a tooth bar, or individeal teeth. When I had a skid steer, it came with a smooth bucket and a tooth bucket. The tooth bucket was on 95% of the time.

 

[Fxfymn413]

I would leave the bucket as is and install a tooth bar, or individeal teeth. When I had a skid steer, it came with a smooth bucket and a tooth bucket. The tooth bucket was on 95% of the time.

I appreciate all of the comments. The group wisdom is always stronger than the individual.

I make my own tooth bars and you are correct a bucket without teeth just doesn't cut it.

It has brand new teeth on it. The bucket is basically new and the story is the owner put a downward bow in the bottom so it looks like it's smiling, sent it to a shop to be straightened, the shop did not want to destroy it while fixing it which would run the cost of welding it back together so high that it was in essence "totaled" so they told the owner to come get it. He said forget it and bought a new bucket.

My labor is cheap so even if I have to cut it up and re-weld it I don't care. I'm pretty sure I can use my log splitter as a press to bring it back and if I can't oh well nothing ventured nothing gained.

As for the comments on the cost of the build; my steel cost is minimal since I use drops from my friends shop and my labor is free. Like I said in the original post I'm pretty sure I would be in it for around $500.00 all in and I save more than that in divorce attorney fees by staying out of the DW's hair by being in the shop not the house.

But after the comments about the lack of usefulness for a 4-in-1 I'm not going that route. I may come up with something else, but for now I'll probably get the bucket and let it sit while I contemplate what would be a useful application for it.

 

[BukitCase]

Npalen - can you explain this statement

"Nice thing about running it on the 3PH is visibility for the operator."

Dunno about you, but I'm NOT related to Linda Blair (from movie - The Exorcist") - the older I get, the less fun rear-mounted stuff that benefits from close supervision/control becomes... Steve

 

[Vigo327]

I should really build something before i run my mouth too long on theoreticals but..

To me the appeal of a 4n1 bucket lies in building it differently than your typical 4n1 bucket, which I honestly struggle to see the appeal of.

I don't really understand why 4n1 buckets are built the way they are, with the 'backplate' being more or less just a dozer blade with no side angling (whoopee?) and almost all of the utility coming from the lid, and the lid being basically the entire size of the closed bucket. I understand the idea of backdragging with the open lid, and how it can make sort of a poorly-gripping grapple.. But i don't understand why the main other choices the lid gives you is to have 'a normal bucket' and 'no bucket'.

What i envision building is more like a root grapple with a fully closed backwall, where the grapple lid is more like a bucket lid. The way I see it, by the root grapple having a 'shorter bottom' then the full closed bucket, you get more breakout force. Combine this with the fact that you can open the lid to dump from the bottom, and you can space your pins farther apart on the loader mount and get even more breakout force by sacrificing 'conventional' dump angle. So this would be for breaking hard ground, and could also rake.

Have the space between the 'teeth' taper to a close between the teeth. Then have the lid close under the teeth and nearly close off the bottom. Loose enough to prevent frequent binding of objects rolling between lid and rake, not loose enough to leak all your material out on a bumpy ride.

Have part of the sidewall of the bucket on the back half, and part on the lid. This would, in my mind, allow you to create a shape between those two pieces that would improve the 'bite' when grappling horizontal objects. The tapering opening between the rake teeth would also create a good bite on vertical objects.

Opening the bucket lid gradually would create variable size openings in bottom of the bucket, allowing for some sifting/screening to be done by rattling loose material in a partially-opened bucket.

Don't crucify me on my MS Paint skills, this is the first time i've tried to create a visual for this idea. But instead of going from 'all bucket' to 'no bucket' and having a 'poorly gripping grapple', i see this as going from 'all bucket' to 'root rake' with 'improved gripping action both horizontally and vertically' and having a bit of rock bucket/skeleton bucket functionality as well. The ability to backdrag with the open lid should still remain.

The geometry of the lid pivot etc would definitely need to be figured out. I just put a circle to give the vague idea that theres a pivot up there, but it's definitely in the wrong place.

 

[airbiscuit]

Me likey.

 

[Fxfymn413]

I should really build something before i run my mouth too long on theoreticals but..

That is an idea that has a lot of merit and would give me a totally different tool from what I have now which the four way really does not do.

And this is why sites like this are so helpful. Group think will always outwit the single player.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm not an Engineer so I can't analyze the forces involved in such a design. I first question why this design hasn't been offered? I second question the reasons why this design hasn't been offered. Then I run up against my lack of Engineering knowledge....

 

[airbiscuit]

I'm guessing that keeping the weight reasonabe is a challenge. That said, it's use is different than lifting big buckets of dirt.