"The Nikola Zero UTV will retail for $42,000. The first 5,000 vehicle reservations will get a $5,000 discount on the suggested retail price, the company said."<<<<<<<<<<Better hurry if you want a $42k UTV for $37,000.00. I think the big rig is easier to swallow at $400,000.00, least you know your getting your money back and the way it sounds, not to far down the road. But where are these made, Mexico? didn't get that part.
Are Automakers This Stupid?
- Thread starter HHR
- Start date
- Views: 10910
DieselBound
Elite Member
I DID read the article.
This is all about the utilization of more efficient motors- electric. That I like electric motors is neither here nor there.
Batteries do NOT amplify or generate energy on their own. In this case it's NG that's "refilling" those energy storages.
Diesel is 27% more energy dense than NG. Figure an additional 27% more storage space. I'd figure that the tanks are also going to have to be a bit more robust than standard diesel fuel tanks, so perhaps a bit more bulk: keep in mind that these tanks have to be pressurized.
And then there's the batteries... what kind of mass are we needing here? Will the combined weight of the electric motors (and turbine
"the NG turbine is just for regenerating the battery packs."
Just? No, as I noted above, ALL energy is coming from the NG. Batteries only STORE the transformed energy. The POINT with electric is that electric motors are more efficient. You're STILL going to be burning through a lot of NG to feed those batteries.
I totally understand the value of electric motors. Diesel+electric make much of our world work: trains.
"Why would a hazmat team be required for cleanup for one of these?"
Batteries (we'll see if folks can ever pull off Li-on for an application like this, but if not then we're talking lead acid):
Section 9: Hazardous Materials
Class 8
I assure you that when the time comes for such vehicles to be on the road that this issue will be addressed. Perhaps special containment. But, for now, I stand by my statement.
"you can bet some serious tax advantages from the Gooberment will be available"
I wouldn't bet on this. Govt subsidies are going to be under tremendous pressure (see "Trump administration"). And, the globe is now under heavy economic contraction (massive amount of excess debt), which means that large ramp-ups of new stuff is going to be extremely difficult. If the global economy were expanding then things like this would have the ability to garner traction.
The article is more of a fishing expedition for capital. Anyone that understands the real state of the market wouldn't likely get near this: American Trucking Associations
Feel free to save this posting and let me know how things are looking in a couple of years.
DieselBound
Elite Member
I wouldn't assume that one would get their money back on the trucks. Trucking is under extreme downward pressure right now, and I don't see it letting up any time soon (if ever). We have no operational data on these types of trucks, so with no cost-per-mile accounting available there's no way to figure on pay-back time.
Keep in mind that there are 750 million folks in India living on $0.50/day (something like 2/3 of the world lives on $3/day or less). Add in that most of those not in those groups are heavily in debt. Most of what were are discussing here has a very limited market.
Copperhead
Veteran Member
While I suppose a lithium battery situation might require a hazmat trigger, it all depends on what gets wrecked. A punctured diesel tank spill will do the same thing. It all depends on the accident. In almost 4 decades of commercial driving, combined with over 4 million miles, I have not had an accident that I could not drive on down the road after, and the two I have had, neither one was ruled as my fault. Both were front end damage from car drivers that couldn't seem to figure out what they were doing. Any number of things with present truck accidents can trigger a hazmat response. The fact that having lithium batteries in a semi ranks very low on my list of hazmat concerns.
Noticed you linked the UnAmerican Trucking Association, the bane of American Truckers. A communist front group that up till recently was run by a Kansas ex-Governor that is pure politician with an agenda that was out to limit or negate smaller trucking operations in favor of the mega carriers. Much like the prevalent major corporation / government bond that has been at work at a high level for some time.
I don't want any subsidy from the American people via the government to get one of the Nikola electric trucks. I would like to have an additional tax break for getting one though as an incentive to invest my money into buying one. A tax break (reduction in what I have to pay in taxes) is not a subsidy, which is a money transfer from the rest of the citizenry for my benefit, much like a grant. You seem to be confusing tax advantages with subsidies. Common mistake. I refused to take grant money for APU units for commercial trucks when the Feds and many states were handing them out (and being promoted by the ATA). To take the tax payer's money for my benefit is nothing less than theft. To reduce my tax liability is not theft, except by those that feel they are entitled to my money.
True, trucking under some pressure, mostly to those that have trouble adjusting to a changing trucking environment and long for the so-called "good 'ol days". Billy Joel had it pegged right... "the good 'ol days weren't always that good and tomorrow is not as bad as it seems". But I have not experienced any of the downward pressure. I decided to move to a LLC with an S Corp tax structure as my net income as a sole proprietor was really racking up some serious tax liability. I needed to get it knocked down a little.
Noticed you linked the UnAmerican Trucking Association, the bane of American Truckers. A communist front group that up till recently was run by a Kansas ex-Governor that is pure politician with an agenda that was out to limit or negate smaller trucking operations in favor of the mega carriers. Much like the prevalent major corporation / government bond that has been at work at a high level for some time.
I don't want any subsidy from the American people via the government to get one of the Nikola electric trucks. I would like to have an additional tax break for getting one though as an incentive to invest my money into buying one. A tax break (reduction in what I have to pay in taxes) is not a subsidy, which is a money transfer from the rest of the citizenry for my benefit, much like a grant. You seem to be confusing tax advantages with subsidies. Common mistake. I refused to take grant money for APU units for commercial trucks when the Feds and many states were handing them out (and being promoted by the ATA). To take the tax payer's money for my benefit is nothing less than theft. To reduce my tax liability is not theft, except by those that feel they are entitled to my money.
True, trucking under some pressure, mostly to those that have trouble adjusting to a changing trucking environment and long for the so-called "good 'ol days". Billy Joel had it pegged right... "the good 'ol days weren't always that good and tomorrow is not as bad as it seems". But I have not experienced any of the downward pressure. I decided to move to a LLC with an S Corp tax structure as my net income as a sole proprietor was really racking up some serious tax liability. I needed to get it knocked down a little.
Last edited:
DieselBound
Elite Member
So, refutation by name-calling? Humph!
Facts are facts. Trucking is heading down: same with shipping; perhaps you'd say that the Baltic Dry Index is also "communist?"
You're making the assumption of things that aren't yet proven. Li-on isn't a shoe-in here. I specifically mentioned lead acid: or was that dmv link also "communist?"
I'm done. If you argue with a fool onlookers won't know the difference.
Copperhead
Veteran Member
Like I stated, trucking is indeed facing some down pressure. I agreed fully. I just quantified who was feeling the down pressure. I am not. I am more profitable than ever. Each of the last 8 years, I have exceeded the previous year's business net income. If that is foolish, then by all means, I am one big fool.
I make an assumption about nothing. I really could care less if they use lithium, ni-cad, or lead acid for batteries. The technicalities concern me little. Only the results. Before I would actually buy one, I would let them work out the initial bugs and such to where it is a stable product.
I make an assumption about nothing. I really could care less if they use lithium, ni-cad, or lead acid for batteries. The technicalities concern me little. Only the results. Before I would actually buy one, I would let them work out the initial bugs and such to where it is a stable product.