Are block heaters needed?

[Egon]

Block heaters come in different wattage ratings. For the tractors we talk about here 350 watts may be the norm???

I've never had a problem leaving mine plugged in all the time.

 

[MadReferee]

Question (really 2) - how much juice does a block heater consume - is it equivalent to, say, a 100W light bulb?
Second question - can you leave it on "too long" - meaning will it get too hot or cause damage if you leave it on all the time?

The block heater for the Kubota B series is 400w @ 115v. All it normally takes is 20-30 minutes to heat up the engine coolant, any more time is wasting electricity.

 

[MikePA]

Morning Mike.
Neet little unit compare to my old Sears charger w/40amp max starter...thanks for the info...125 must really spin the engine,or does it have safety device built in...only uses the amps it needs to start.

Morning Thomas,

When I've used it to start the tractor, cars or truck, the engine turns over just as if the battery was working correctly.

 

[ovrszd]

The block heater for the Kubota B series is 400w @ 115v. All it normally takes is 20-30 minutes to heat up the engine coolant, any more time is wasting electricity.

Yeah, I would agree. I run a grader and plug it in nightly if I plan to use it the next morning. Went to Wal-Mart and bought a plug-in timer that allows me to set each of the hours on a 24 hour clock. For example if I were going to start the grader each morning at 0600 hrs, I would leave it plugged in when parked and have the timer set to kick on at 0400 or 0500 hrs and back off at 0600 hrs. Only using one or two hours of electricity and having the grader crank as if I just shut it off. Minimizes the amount of electricity but still gives the results I want.

Edit: Forgot to mention, it won't hurt your engine to leave it plugged in all night. Just uses more electricity than necessary to get a good start.

 

[patrick_g]

Although a block heater of the "percolator type that heats the water may have a rating of 350 watts give or take a hundred watts or two, it isn't a sure thing that it is pulling that continuously since the ones I used in North Dakota had thermostats and would cycle. If you are concerned with eneregy consumption, you can put it on a timer if you have one.

Regarding the loss of mileage due to winter starts. Let me generalize that statement. Many automotive experts believe that dry starts (summer or winter) reduce engine life by a factor of 2-3. All starts that are a day since the unit last run is a dry start as the warm oil after engine shut down is heated and thinned (no circulatiion) and drains down leaving little or no residual whre the hot spots were and not much anywhere else. When first cranking your engine there is little lubrication. This accelerates wear by a fantastic margin.

The Cummins diesel folks (factory info not some shade tree mech) recommend that if your engine has not been run for several days (a few weeks) that you should disconnect the fuel solelnoid and crank it with no fuel until you see the oil pressure come up and then give it fuel. They recommend a switch to easily accomplish that. My Toyota Prius starts and stops the engine frequently (like about every time you coast) and they do not give it fuel or spark when cranking plus they use the variable valve timing to elliminate compression. They spin it up and get oil pressure and then give it compressiion, fuel, and spark.

Many diesel boats and lots of big trucks and heavy duty equipment use a device called a preluber. It is (usually) an electric oil pump that is switched on and it brings the oil pressure up lubricating everything and then you crank the engine. Another use of the preluber is as a post-luber that keeps circulating the oil after you shut down to avoid hot spots frying any oil. This is especially useful for the turbo bearings.

There are super simple DIY non-electric preluber designs which I will discuss in a different thread if there is interest.

A block heater does not lubricate anything. It shortens the time it takes to get oil to the places it needs to go so that at best the dry starts you experience in the winter are no more severe than those in suimmer. Cranking with the fuel turned off till oil pressure comes up (ala Cummins and others) helps but does not elliminate the dry start problem. A preluber, even a simple non-electric DIY model elliminates dry starts as it gets the oil pressure on the scoreboard before you do any rotatary metal to metal grinding.

Pat

(Note: Smilies don't work for me on this site... Assume a couple yellow smiles after my name unless otherwise informed)

 

[Doc_Bob]

Shumacher is one brand with a model that has a Start Engine setting. Link

Thanks, nice unit.
Bob

 

[Doc_Bob]

Only using one or two hours of electricity and having the grader crank as if I just shut it off. Minimizes the amount of electricity but still gives the results I want.

Edit: Forgot to mention, it won't hurt your engine to leave it plugged in all night. Just uses more electricity than necessary to get a good start.

I will do the same with a timer. No harm in saving electricity.
Bob

 

[goaliedad]

I really like the timer idea, and the cord thru the steering wheel. Wish I had thought of that before....don't ask.

What are your thoughts on a running a salamander type heater on the tractor? My old L175 has always been on cold blooded beast- have used a magnet heater on the oil pan with decent luck- resorted to the salamander when needed. Not too close, just blowing on the engine for a while.

Last winter I did some work on the engine, and it seems be much easier to start now- hopefully it will be a while before I find out! LOL

 

[Charolais]

I can start both my tractors without the block being heated. But I have them and use them on both. Main reason is to keep down wear on the engine and starter. Second resason is the engine is nice and warm and I don't have to let it sit there burning fuel to get warmed up.

I've tried all the engine block heaters except the Propane type. The dip stick heater can burn the engine oil. The lower radiator hose heater/I've seen two of those get stuck on and either boil all the coolant out or crack the radiator. I have on tractor with the heater in the freeze plug. It works OK and does the job. But it doesn't warm the engine like a tank heater. I've found over the year that the tank heater works best for me. On larger (50hp-75hp) engines I use 1,500-2,000 watt tank heaters. They will warm the engine and the temp. guage will go up just like the engine is running. I have both tractors on timers so they come on about 1.5 hours before I need them. This is done daily because I feed cows daily. When the freeze plug type stops working I'll replace it with the tank type.


This is what I use:Servicemate.com
This type heater has a ball in the output side so it stops backflow after the engine is started. They have held up well.

 

[Doc_Bob]

This is what I use:Servicemate.com
This type heater has a ball in the output side so it stops backflow after the engine is started. They have held up well.

How are they installed? Any pics you can post of your installations?
Bob

 

[Charolais]

Doc-Bob,I mount the tank heater on the side of the engine. The intake end of the heater has to be below where you pick up the coolant. I've always used the drain plug for the engine block to connect the intake side to.

The output side runs up to what I call a water manifold along the top of the engine head. Most of those manifolds have a plug at the rear end(front end meaning the water pump). The flow from the tank heater has to have upward flow from the output side. So you can't take a hose over the engine and go back down to connect.

By connecting to the water/coolant manifold you get the engine head nice and warm, so you know what that does for combustion. If it's 10 degree in Feb. the engine will crank like it's July. I had a 574 IH and a 1,500 watt tank heater would put the temp. gauge just like the engine was running.

The tank heater uses barbed fittings and 5/8ths heater hose just like most trucks and cars use. I try and mount as close to the engine as possible so nothing hangs the heater while working the tractor. Tractors with loaders I mount the heater between the loader frame and engine. That protects the heater unit alot.

 

[Stubblejumper]

Up here in Saskatchewan we get winter similar to North Dakota. Perhaps a little colder even. Very few people here use recirculating heaters on their engines. They just can't get enough heat to stay in the engine. Block heaters are pretty much mandantory for any vehicle that is stored outdoors or even in an unheated shop or garage. I find that I can plug in the block heater an hour before using a gas engined car or truck, but for any diesel, a couple hours on the block heater is required. Ideally a battery warmer is used also. It greatly assists cold starts if the vehicle is out of the wind. If it is windy, you will need to plug the block heater in for 4 hours or more just to get some heat into the engine. A great aid in starting cold engines is low viscosity synthetic oil. I use 0W40 in my JD 3720. Seems to be pretty good stuff. Even flows half decently when cold. I just compared regular 15W40 to the 0W40 on a day that was -5C (about 23F) while changing my oil. The 0W40 poured fine if a little slow, but the 15W40 was like thick syrop. It took more than twice as long to pour the same amount of oil.

My main concern with starting my tractor in the winter is with the hydrostatic drive. JD offers a heater kit for the HST, but I have not yet installed it. What I currently do is use a magnetic heater to warm things up. It is not the ideal solution, but it warms things up enough to get some flow through the system when it is first started up.

I generally warm my tractor for about 5 minutes at 1200-1500 rpm then drive it gently for a few more minutes until the temperature gauge reads in the regular operating zone. This seems to work well even on the coldest days.

A final note. Make sure you have used all your summer diesel before it gets too cold. It is no fun trying to warm up a fuel tank full of gelled fuel.

 

[Doc_Bob]

A final note. Make sure you have used all your summer diesel before it gets too cold. It is no fun trying to warm up a fuel tank full of gelled fuel.

Or add Power Service???
Bob

 

[patrick_g]

Stubblejumper, There probably isn't 50 cents worth of difference between most of your weather and northern North Dakota (Minot.) You are doing what it takes. Some folks don't understand what all is hapening and are just happy to be able to start the engine. Unfortunately starting a really cold engine has an extremely high wear factor associated with it due to lack of lubrication. Warming the engine enough to see the temp gage come off the lower peg is way better than cranking a cold soaked engine which hasn't been run lately.

The HST and other hydraulics don't like to be worked much when really cold either. You need to be gentle with the HST and hydraulics until they start to warm up a bit. The magnetic heater on the tranny is a great idea. It doesn't have to make it feel warm to the touch to to help a lot. Warmin the tranny up to freezing is way better than using it at subzero temps.

Ths difference between summer and winter diesel is kerosene. Winter diesel is part kerosene. It develops a tad less power but has a lower gelling point. I run summer diesel all year in Oklahoma in the tractor but use anti-gel added to the tank. If it were to get and stay really cold (very rare) I would mix kerosene with my fuel as well. I buy 300 gal at a time and it lasts over 1/2 a year so I will have the wrong blend either way. I choose to buy summer off road diesel and take action to get along in cold weather.

Pat

 

[herringchoker]

Question (really 2) - how much juice does a block heater consume - is it equivalent to, say, a 100W light bulb?
Second question - can you leave it on "too long" - meaning will it get too hot or cause damage if you leave it on all the time?

They come in different ratings, e.g. 600W, 900W, 1500W. Normally they only need to be turned on for an hour or so before starting the engine (varies with wattage & air temperature). That said, I used to have a dump truck that was on standby in the winter for hauling snow. It had a Caterpillar 3406B diesel engine (893 cu. in. 6 cylinder) that was sometimes plugged in for days at a time so it would be ready to go when needed. I had that truck for over 10 years and never had a problem with it, so I don't think it hurts the engine...only your bank account.

 

[Iowachild]

What are your thoughts on a running a salamander type heater on the tractor? My old L175 has always been on cold blooded beast- have used a magnet heater on the oil pan with decent luck- resorted to the salamander when needed. Not too close, just blowing on the engine for a while.

That's exactly what we use to preheat our aircraft engines. Made a long snout out of 8" stove pipe with an adjustable elbow on the outlet. Place the elbow under the cowl and the length of stove pipe allows the air to cool enough to not damage.