Are CUT Manufacturers Smart Enough to Follow TBN?

[Texasmark]

Source?

Steve

irs.gov, questions from viewers.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

As a whole, I'd say people vastly underestimate the amount of interaction engineers and manufacturers have with end users. I see it ALOT. However TBN would be a terrible place to glean that info as you have no context of who the person is behind the keyboard is. A lot of 'problems' that come up here are probably rooted in a lack of education and experience, interpreting them as engineering issues would be a big mistake.

 

[AxleHub]

As a whole, I'd say people vastly underestimate the amount of interaction engineers and manufacturers have with end users. I see it ALOT. However TBN would be a terrible place to glean that info as you have no context of who the person is behind the keyboard is. A lot of 'problems' that come up here are probably rooted in a lack of education and experience, interpreting them as engineering issues would be a big mistake.

I agree with you to a certain extent. That extent ends with who is doing the reading IMO. You're a great example of being able to interpret the value of opinions - because you are in the "thick of it". However, too often engineers (I know some that do design work) are very bright - but they are handed a descriptive scenario to create or evaluate - without the benefit of real life expectation. They are working with safety percentages and cost/price issues. As an example - a few years ago I was very impressed by the quality of a rep from LandPride. He knew I was designing some things for another industry and he was talking about some new products they were having and the frustration of getting the engineering at your favorite brand to get off the ball as it took sooooo long for approval on items that were implement oriented (not engine or power related).

I think there are many unsupported opinions on TBN - but I also think there are a number of very astute tractor users that think before they write. Some are also inventive in what they create or upgrade. I think those types of input are highly valuable - but manufacturers would need a couple people who could interpret between brilliance and "dreamer". That could see in 3 dimensions and not in 1 dimensional. I also continue to believe that manufacturers should do "written surveys" of their users after 6 months and again after 3 years - to glean weaknesses in the manufacturer's presentation on the internet, or product lineup, or rebate methods, or slight alterations that could add significant benefit.

Here's just a single small example. It doesn't effect safety or cost or production alterations. I didn't invest in a Kubota, I got a Massey scut - although there certainly was a lot of comparisons done before the decision LOL. But I found even before I bought my Massey scut - that I noted an issue that could be improved on with the seat adjustment. After I got my machine I took out 2 bolts holding the seat stop in place - reversed the seat stop and reinstalled the 2 bolts. Without effecting the sensors or drilling or cutting or disconnecting anything - I added over 2 inches of added seat adjustment. then 1 year later I saw where it could be even further improved - by removing 4 bolts and moving the bracket back 1 more hole (again no drilling or cutting or disconnecting of anything - then reinstalled those 4 bolts again. Net result is another 1.5 inches of seat adjustment on top of the prior 2 inches. No cost, no production changes - no safety issues - no modifications of metal or wiring. But that idea now allows a 6 ft. 8 person to sit on my seat, a 4 foot 10 female to sit comfortably, a 350 pound person or a 98 pound person - same seat belt same steering wheel same pedals and cockpit controls. AND it allows for winter coats and boots - or summer tshirts and and sneakers. And no engineer saw it while I saw it easily.

You're a very sharp person - imagine if manufacturers could find 25 or 30 people like that from TBN sifting - and pay them to produce new thinking - what that could do for manufacturer's design benefits - or for their quality of internet presentation - or sales and marketing - or accessory creation - and ultimately . . . . the Brand name's profit growth for manufacturer and the dealers who sell the equipment.

Just a thought LOL

 

[finn1]

Total BS, in my experience. Engineers permeate the industry and come in hundreds of flavors, from concept designers, analysts, design engineers, development engineers, industry trade and professional organizations, field service, manufacturing engineers, epa and emission specialists, legal affairs, and the list goes on.

Input to new designs comes from a plethora of areas including competitive analysis, customer focus groups, legislative changes on the horizon, trade and professional groups, warranty reviews, technology changes, University, DARPA, DOE, and EPA research projects, and many more.

I don’t want to belittle the influence of sites like this, and i’m Sure some intern at each company has a summer job within the marketing or product planning departments monitoring sites like this and gleaning information on issues that might be useful when new or updated products are being considered.



As you can probably tell, I worked for a large organization for over thirty five years, in dozens of technical positions, from lowly test engineer to executive positions dealing with advanced products.

We always maintained customer contact, through organized channels. It was part of the job.

I will also tell you that very little innovation came at customer request. That comes from elsewhere.

No consumer asked for an electric starter, automatic transmission, air conditioner, catalytic converter on their car., and no housewife asked for a refrigerator, electric iron, dishwasher, or electric range.

Those items were all concocted by engineers and innovators.

If you don’t like the link setup on your Kubota, either buy the dealer installed option, or buy a competitive tractor that has that option as standard equipment. Or perhaps bring it up to the factory sales rep at a trade show. If he’s doing his job, he’ll get the message back to product planning. ( Most of the issues listed in this thread are product planning, and not engineering issues).

Same goes to the backhoe / tire issue

That sends the message to Kubota or whoever the manufacturer is

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

Yeah, gonna have to agree with Messicks and finn1. Finn spelled it out pretty good....imao

 

[jaydee325]

I agree with Finn1 as well.

A question. When all of you get customer feedback surveys from a manufacturer, do you fill them out? Or, would you rather comment about a product on forums such as this?

Total BS, in my experience. Engineers permeate the industry and come in hundreds of flavors, from concept designers, analysts, design engineers, development engineers, industry trade and professional organizations, field service, manufacturing engineers, epa and emission specialists, legal affairs, and the list goes on.

Input to new designs comes from a plethora of areas including competitive analysis, customer focus groups, legislative changes on the horizon, trade and professional groups, warranty reviews, technology changes, University, DARPA, DOE, and EPA research projects, and many more.

I don稚 want to belittle the influence of sites like this, and i知 Sure some intern at each company has a summer job within the marketing or product planning departments monitoring sites like this and gleaning information on issues that might be useful when new or updated products are being considered.



As you can probably tell, I worked for a large organization for over thirty five years, in dozens of technical positions, from lowly test engineer to executive positions dealing with advanced products.

We always maintained customer contact, through organized channels. It was part of the job.

I will also tell you that very little innovation came at customer request. That comes from elsewhere.

No consumer asked for an electric starter, automatic transmission, air conditioner, catalytic converter on their car., and no housewife asked for a refrigerator, electric iron, dishwasher, or electric range.

Those items were all concocted by engineers and innovators.

If you don稚 like the link setup on your Kubota, either buy the dealer installed option, or buy a competitive tractor that has that option as standard equipment. Or perhaps bring it up to the factory sales rep at a trade show. If he痴 doing his job, he値l get the message back to product planning. ( Most of the issues listed in this thread are product planning, and not engineering issues).

Same goes to the backhoe / tire issue

That sends the message to Kubota or whoever the manufacturer is

 

[airbiscuit]

As a whole, I'd say people vastly underestimate the amount of interaction engineers and manufacturers have with end users. I see it ALOT. However TBN would be a terrible place to glean that info as you have no context of who the person is behind the keyboard is. A lot of 'problems' that come up here are probably rooted in a lack of education and experience, interpreting them as engineering issues would be a big mistake.

At the risk of taking some issue with Messicks who has a sterling reputation on TBN ...

It strikes me there are at least 4 categories marketing research could monitor - some with value - some without.

1. My dealer sucks!
Probably pretty subjective = little or no value

2. Heard (LS) has a new sub-compact. Lots of chatter from other TBNrs, dealers, video from dealer. Nothing on the Company website.
Probably has value if you want to sell tractors. Also erroneous, incomplete or conflicting info on the website (loader specs for example)

3. My new tractor has a little leak on a loader hydraulic fitting.
Probably has no value - the owner could simply tighten the fitting.

4. Lots of posts regarding quality or leaks. Or, you have to remove the rear wheel to reinstall the 3 point hitch after removing the backhoe (or other real design flaws, or significant quality issues).
Probably has value if you care about your brand reputation or you want to sell tractors.

Again, I have high regard for Messicks. Even though your post diminishes the value of TBNr opinions to the corporate masters, I am betting the posts reinforce your own commitment to customer service, quality dealer prep, and what seems to attract or repel customers.

 

[Texasmark]

Total BS, in my experience. Engineers permeate the industry and come in hundreds of flavors, from concept designers, analysts, design engineers, development engineers, industry trade and professional organizations, field service, manufacturing engineers, epa and emission specialists, legal affairs, and the list goes on.

Input to new designs comes from a plethora of areas including competitive analysis, customer focus groups, legislative changes on the horizon, trade and professional groups, warranty reviews, technology changes, University, DARPA, DOE, and EPA research projects, and many more.

I don’t want to belittle the influence of sites like this, and i’m Sure some intern at each company has a summer job within the marketing or product planning departments monitoring sites like this and gleaning information on issues that might be useful when new or updated products are being considered.



As you can probably tell, I worked for a large organization for over thirty five years, in dozens of technical positions, from lowly test engineer to executive positions dealing with advanced products.

We always maintained customer contact, through organized channels. It was part of the job.

I will also tell you that very little innovation came at customer request. That comes from elsewhere.

No consumer asked for an electric starter, automatic transmission, air conditioner, catalytic converter on their car., and no housewife asked for a refrigerator, electric iron, dishwasher, or electric range.

Those items were all concocted by engineers and innovators.

If you don’t like the link setup on your Kubota, either buy the dealer installed option, or buy a competitive tractor that has that option as standard equipment. Or perhaps bring it up to the factory sales rep at a trade show. If he’s doing his job, he’ll get the message back to product planning. ( Most of the issues listed in this thread are product planning, and not engineering issues).

Same goes to the backhoe / tire issue

That sends the message to Kubota or whoever the manufacturer is

Nice dissertation but somewhat tilted, having BTDT for a living.

 

[ultrarunner]

We have had Kubota contact posters about issues and Kubota Insurance is a poster here...

I've also had Dealers say they check in here just to get a pulse.

I do believe it is true that members here may not be typical but we are a most definite market segment... some have bought dozens of Kubota items... I currently have 3 and TBN is the reason... I had started out to buy Deere but the big AG dealer had no time for hobby farmer... and there are no Kubota Dealers in the several nearby counties.

Met one Kubota engineer and who was well aware of the jerky 3-point on one model as were the dealers.

In my own case Kubota offered free or low cost replacement BX seats and I bought one for $50... those here for a longtime might remember?

There was nothing really wrong with the existing seat except to say it was adequate... the newer seat was better contoured... we spoke and Kubota listened.

My local Dealer knew nothing about it... I mean nothing... had to make a call to Kubota and found out the seat campaign was legit...

 

[dnw64]

Whatç—´ that supposed to mean? My profile is available for your viewing.

I had no idea you were referring to yourself, I was asking you to point out the individual(s).

I am not going to go read the profile of every single person that posts on here before responding. If that's a requirement, here is my resignation.