Are CUT Manufacturers Smart Enough to Follow TBN?

[smstonypoint]

we're spoiled in our area. There are lots of good dealers here, that's part of what's driven our level of customer service to such heights... its required to stand out. A lot of people come to us from long, long distances away because the standard of service in their area is so much lower.

Competition breeds competence -- a lack of competition breeds complacency.

Steve

 

[AxleHub]

Competition breeds competence -- a lack of competition breeds complacency.

Steve

I think the struggle for many small businesses - which includes tractor/implement dealers and makers, is that it is difficult to have good customer service and good prices at the same time. Larger operations have their profits spread over many product sales - or they can get special deals from the manufacturers on pricing.

Especially unfair - is the comparison in "price" when its really a comparison in sales tax or not sales tax on a purchase. With margins thin for many smaller business operations to start with - there is no way they can absorb 5% or 6% sales tax discounts besides - and I feel it is very unfair for those who post about going across the borders specifically to save sales tax and then brag about how low a price they got because they "saved" the sales tax. What they really did was cheat their state and its small businesses, because its legal . . . doesn't make it right. But in most states - "it is legally not right either" as they really don't "save the sales tax". Buyers of out of state product by citizens of a different state (in most states) are technically required to pay "use tax" instead. Its one thing on a $20 item - its quite something else on a $15K or $25K or $45K tractor.

Because I've been in the small business owners shoes for decades - I understand how many owners want to do the best job they can - but how every day prospect assumptions of what profit levels are, can be very tiring on a daily basis. Everybody employed in the business and all the vendors get paid first and what is left over the owner may or may not get. Too often even the skilled experienced owner can be "paid" less than their employees - yet can't complain about it and still must maintain their standard of customer care.

And yes - Messicks is a good example of a customer care centric operation. My dealer in Sauk City WI is quite similar in customer appreciation and effort. I didn't choose the closest Massey dealer to me - I chose what I considered the best within my 150 mile radius.

jmho

 

[4570Man]

First off local state tax is like 9.75 percent. Not a measly 5. Second off cheating the state ok whatever floats your boat. More like the state cheating the business making it impossible for them to compete with out of state dealers. The use tax isn't enforced. Want to guess how many people pay it?

 

[k0ua]

Is this because of the thread about quirks? Those crazy people had me scared. :laughing:
Travis

Me too!

 

[AxleHub]

First off local state tax is like 9.75 percent. Not a measly 5. Second off cheating the state ok whatever floats your boat. More like the state cheating the business making it impossible for them to compete with out of state dealers. The use tax isn't enforced. Want to guess how many people pay it?

Who pays use taxes? Anyone who gets audited once and most businesses on purchases over $1000 because its a heck of a penalty. By the way - there are now more methods for tracking sales out of state than there were a few years ago (its called "destination reporting").

As far as state tax being 9.75% - that likely means you have almost no property taxing which is certainly not true in WI. But my point isn't that I'm a big government supporter - my point is its not fair for good businesses to suffer because some people cheat. And by the way - many states also have set up "tip lines" and tipsters get a reward if it leads to state collections of use tax collections. Use tax is now being enforced far more than just a few years ago - especially on major purchases because states are struggling for revenue that is being "avoided".

You don't have to like it or not like it - its been the law for at least 4 decades that I know of. You can work to get it changed at the legislature side of things - but cursing the sky and shaking your fist at the clouds won't lessen the penalties if caught.

JMHO

 

[MossRoad]

No idea as to your engineering expertise, but you should have spent more time in English 101 learning proper sentence and paragraph structuring. Your post is just a bunch of gobbledegoop. If you would stick in a space now and then and make short paragraphs out of your dissertation, it would be much more digestible and probably more readers would follow along with you.

I think it's gobbledegook, not gobbledegoop...

Gobbledegook | Define Gobbledegook at Dictionary.com

 

[Coyote machine]

Interesting thread until it becomes mired in some 'dealers/sellers' of equipment arguing with the 'average' TBN members.

I personally find it somewhat but not overwhelmingly offensive to say TBN represents other than the average consumer - really, please show statistical proof/reasoning for that statement.

I know the auto business, and it took forever for the KING of automotive manufacturers in the US, GM, to learn that their arrogance was going to lead to their downfall. And yet it did. They and some tractor manufacturers have learned the hard way that the customer is for all intents and purposes most always right. Why you ask? Because we vote with our money. And with our opinions. If we didn't. JD Powers and Associates, and similar survey companies wouldn't be used, nor would their survey results be quoted ad nauseum.

Sheep we are not. Customers and buyers of products we are- in force. We are aware of the importance of the internet, and how it has become the largest resource for those who have and want to be able to keep their equipment in good condition and do their own repairs, etc. TBN serves those needs very well.
I'm not saying it would be a simple process for Tractor Corps./equipment sellers and such to cherry pick what data might be of best use to them, but I stand behind it being readily available here on TBN. If a manufacturer chooses not to mine it, then it is only their and their customers loss.

The whole face to face vs. written data argument falls way short of reality IMO. Personally, I'm not interested in filling out survey forms for everything I own. Especially since the whole input/outcome is geared to getting the results the surveyor seeks. Check boxes and scales of 1-10 may be standard and taken from psychology based and designed tests about human traits, etc., but the results are skewed to show high marks for whatever product a manufacturer plugs in during the 'honeymoon' phase of the product ownership. Then on to the next sale. We become a statistic, and useful or not to the sales force.

Where the manufactures fall down is after the sale. For instance, I can go to my selling dealer and tell him I want my tractor manufacturer to make online WSM available, or CD's or DVD's of workshop and other specifications, manuals, whatever. I'm one voice falling on possibly deaf ears. He may not chose or recall our conversation details or my specific concerns, and in NOT passing along my concerns to his zone rep, or corporate contacts, my issue is overlooked completely. Whereas, if I bring it here, and express it in the Kioti buying/selling forum, thousands of people have access to it all over the World. If the college intern grazes through the Kioti forum it's right there and ready to be accessed as to corporate value.

There is still arrogance in manufacturing. Each customer is only one in the big wheels cogs. One color comes to mind that has dominated the tractor market in the States since forever- sort of like GM. They seem to chose to spread out and sell in every venue including box stores, with cheap China made product at a particular price point. Fine, one can still buy -----, if one is loyal just to color.

Otherwise they can shop around, do research, for instance on TBN and elsewhere. How many compare this brand model and this other brand, to this model tractor threads, are found on TBN each day? Many.
Do they influence buying choices, you bet they do. How many more sales could be made by xyz manufacturer if they were placing more emphasis on what we as consumers actually want vs. what we're forced to deal with in the marketplace.

I'm NOT saying all ideas here merit consideration, but I do say if a manufacturer isn't on top of what's really happening in the marketplace, no matter how large they may be, or how long they've been around they too can die a slow or fast death of having missed their boat when it sails off into oblivion.

Take brick and mortar stores, or mall stores extinction, as examples of SOP forever; now, not so much.
Why? They MISSED the writing on the proverbial wall, a wall of writing going on on the internet, dictating pricing and features
that Amazon and Walmart, and other retailers, pay very close attention to. We say what us bill paying consumers want, and when we want it. It's become companies beware, instead of buyer beware. Whoa to all who don't see that change.

 

[dnw64]

You didn稚 ask me to do anything.

Yes, I did.

I asked you to please come out and give some details. Maybe "man up" means something different to you and me. If so, I'm sorry. I was merely asking you to stop (what appeared to me to be) hiding behind mama's skirts and say what you really meant.

I don稚 much care what you read, or if you can read, or whether you resign from whatever it is you are threatening to resign from.

My follow up referred to the fact that, since you choose not to readily identify your affiliation with a commercial enterprise that benefits from tractor sales, you can hardly expect me to know same. And if somehow the requirement to research every poster's background before responding has somehow become a requirement without my awareness of such, I will be much happier elsewhere. So, if you have a link to point me to, I'll be happy to review and the resign (or not).

...or if you can read...

Really. Are we back in third grade now?

//goes to search for Ignore switch.

 

[dnw64]

Interesting thread until it becomes mired in some 'dealers/sellers' of equipment arguing with the 'average' TBN members.

I personally find it somewhat but not overwhelmingly offensive to say TBN represents other than the average consumer - really, please show statistical proof/reasoning for that statement.

I know the auto business, and it took forever for the KING of automotive manufacturers in the US, GM, to learn that their arrogance was going to lead to their downfall. And yet it did. They and some tractor manufacturers have learned the hard way that the customer is for all intents and purposes most always right. Why you ask? Because we vote with our money. And with our opinions. If we didn't. JD Powers and Associates, and similar survey companies wouldn't be used, nor would their survey results be quoted ad nauseum.

I don't know the mind of the poster you are referring to. However, I believe my take on their point was almost 180° different than yours.

To my observation, there are a (very) few people who are passionately for or against the tractor they do/don't have who post on TBN. I'm not going to go look up the number of TBN members, or try to quantify the "relevance" of said members by number/"quality" of their posts. Or research the number of tractors sold in the USA every year, or how many tractors might be currently in service in the USA. But I think it's far beyond reasonable logic to expect that the majority of tractor owners in the USA are active members of TBN. By that simple fact you have to expect that TBN owners are not "average".

Not by any means does this mean (to me) that they are stupider, or less likely to win the lottery. In fact, I would say that the average TBN poster is far more involved in their tractor than average non-TBN members. Exactly what that translates to, I would hesitate to say. Surely, there are SOME nincompoops that come on with baseless complaints or silly questions. But in my relatively short time here, I would say that the majority of posts are well grounded, with good/sensible questions and good/sensible answers.

Then again, maybe we both misunderstood the post.

 

[RickB]

Yes, I did.

I asked you to please come out and give some details. Maybe "man up" means something different to you and me. If so, I'm sorry. I was merely asking you to stop (what appeared to me to be) hiding behind mama's skirts and say what you really meant.

My follow up referred to the fact that, since you choose not to readily identify your affiliation with a commercial enterprise that benefits from tractor sales, you can hardly expect me to know same. And if somehow the requirement to research every poster's background before responding has somehow become a requirement without my awareness of such, I will be much happier elsewhere. So, if you have a link to point me to, I'll be happy to review and the resign (or not).



Really. Are we back in third grade now?

//goes to search for Ignore switch.

Telling me to ‘man up’ isn’t a specific request for anything. If you can’t articulate your thoughts any better than that maybe you ought to go back to third grade.

I participate here for entertainment, not profit. My employment status has been in my profile here for over 17 years. My employers over that period have not paid to advertise here so I have in large part tried not to promote those businesses under the guise of a non commercial member. How you view that choice matters little to me, as does your use of the ignore list option. Dealership employees have been and will continue to be a source of information here. Take it or leave it.