Arena Project

[Casimir]

Dingo taking a water break /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Casimir]

My Mama didn't raise no dummies -- if a project requires real manual labor -- hire it done /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Casimir]

What good is a riding arena if no one watches you ride? So the spectators need a place to sit -- you can see the completed fence in the background.

 

[Casimir]

And this is why I did it--

She thinks the Tractor has been a good investment now /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif. She may even consent to an upgrade, after we pay for a few more projects /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

 

[Casimir]

By the way, the grey one is the real Casimir -- I just borrowed his name when I was trying come up with a screen name for TBN /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Casimir means "peaceful" in Slavic -- at least that's what I have been told.

Hope you enjoyed the photos. And Alex, thanks for pushing me into another "project" organizing the photos.

Kip

 

[Golfgar4]

Kip,

Thanks for the photos. They were great!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

It's fun to see a project go from start to finish like that. And it's especially fun to see a tractor being used to do almost all of it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I was wondewring why you didn't get a PHD and do the fence (or at the very least the post holes!) yourself. Wouldn't that have been less expensive? I realize that you would have had to erect the fence yourself, but you did have that hard working nephew? Of course, I'm sure it was much faster hiring it out, and that's always an important consideration too.

You sure did get a lot of seat time. How long was it from start to finish?

 

[GaryM]

Thanks for the great pictures. Looks like a nice arena. But you need a new implement! One of those rotary rake things to fluff up the surface.

 

[Casimir]

Thanks, Garry and Gary /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I thought about tackling the fence myself, but I was still working 5 days a week when we started the project(s) and don't have any help I can count on except Sharon, who also works 5 days a week. The nephew was only visiting for a couple of weeks - got all I could out of him then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Also, we wanted a rather special fence - with 48" diamond mesh wire and a 1"X6" sight board on top. That wire is really tough to work with -- I knew from past experience, and the crew really didn't like it. However, it makes a very strong, safe fence for horses. Time was, of course, the other factor. It would have taken me a year of weekends to do what the crew did in two weeks - 2100 feet of fence all together. They did a very professional job.

As far as overall time from start to finish -- probably 8 months. However, that is because the guy doing the clearing was giving us a special price if we allowed him to work it in between his other jobs, and he did not complete clearing the arena area until he was nearly done with the other 6 acres for the pasture and barn area. It probably took us about 3 months, once we started on the arena. I "retired" in May, but still work 3 days a week as a contractor -- that, combined with weather delays (Why is it, that it always rains on weekends or Thursday or Friday, so it is too wet to work on the weekend? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif) is why it took so long.

Gary - I have a rotary harrow, but that is one of the reasons that I wish I had laid down a layer of stone dust between the sand and the gravel base. The rotary harrow digs too deep and brings up gravel into the sand, just like sharp hooves do. I may yet end up scraping off all the sand, screening it, and putting down a layer of stone dust before respreading the sand /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif More seat time /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

Thanks again for the kind words.

Kip

 

[cowboydoc]

I admire the job you did clearing and leveling and your forethought for drainage. I would say for anyone looking to build an arena, as you have already found out, that a gravel base is sure not what you want for riding or training horses. You need a solid, smooth base under your footing. Usually this is a clay base. I have personally never seen anyone use gravel as their base. Just curious as to why you did that? Is it common to do in that area? For roping, reining, cutting, etc. you sure wouldn't want that gravel base. Also I would regularly pick those pieces of gravel that you bring up out. It's pretty easy to stone bruise a sole on the horse with those little stones.

 

[Casimir]

Hi Doc:
The gravel base was intended to provide some drainage. A solid clay base would provide an impervious layer and keep the water up in the sand. Part of this I got from a book on arena construction, and it seems pretty common in this area. I had hoped that the crusher run would pack solidly enough so the rocks wouldn't work to the surface.

I still think that a layer (2-3 inches) of stone dust, unwashed, would allow drainage but not have rocks work through it. A previous experience trying to provide a workable footing on top of our clay/sand subsoil resulted in the clay/sand layer just getting muddy and slippery and taking longer to dry out, even with 3 inches of sand on top of it.

You are right about the rocks. Dragging the arena covers them, but they don't go away. Looks like I will probably have to strip the sand off and screen it, then add a layer of dust over the crusher run before I lay the sand back down. We checked into the crumb rubber footing material, but it would cost about $6K just for the material, plus delivery and spreading it -- with everything else we want to do, it seemed out of our price range. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Alex_Mendoza]

Wow!!

I Thank You ! for sharing the pictures of the project !!
What a very nice project and I am sure the wife loves it!! I am about to start the same out here in San Diego so I will take some pictures as the project progresses.
Very well done and THANK YOU for sharing your project with us!

Alex /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

I know what you're saying about drainage but you can do the same thing with the clay base. You just build the drains around the outside and then crown it. The crown will let the water run down. If you are ever in Iowa give me a holler and I'll show you our arena. It's for roping and reining. We have a solid clay base that is crowned with drainage. Then have the 3" of sand on top of that. Even with 2 or 3" of rain we can be roping or reining in a day, two max. If you want to go back and do yours give Jim Kiser a call. He is probably the premier guy in the country on arena surfaces.

 

[riptides]

Nice job, thanks for posting those.
You have a really nice area, one can never to too big.

That horse looks pretty good too.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[riptides]

Kip,

Since your down the road from me, I think... I am up on 17
by the Stafford, Fauquier Line, could you PM me or post your
guy who did your clearing?

I am in the process of doing a riding ring, but time as gotten away from me. I need a couple of hundred feet cleared out and don't feel like banging my tractor around any more.

Thanks.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Casimir]

Doc:

The more I think about it, the more I think we may both be right. In this area, you need to provide a gravel base under an arena because when the soils get saturated, there is no bottom to them. Once, when my dealer was delivering a piece of equipment, the driver had a small dozer (NH, about D4 size) on his truck. As he was backing out of my driveway, he cut a corner a little sharp and got his wheels off the driveway. The soils were saturated, and he went in up to the axle -- had to jack up the truck enough to level it, unload the Dozer, and use the Dozer to pull him out. As long as he stayed on the driveway, which had a good gravel base, he had no problem.

That's also why folks back here put a gravel base under their arenas. If they don't have a good, solid base (sub-base, if you will), the bottom kind of goes out from under the arena and you develop sinkholes /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. Eventually, the whole arena needs to be redone.

Arena construction varies around the country. In southern Idaho, it seemed all I had to do was drag the riding surface once in awhile, but we only got about 12 inches of rain a year. In Yuma, AZ, (3 inches per year) the soils were so sandy we also just had to drag a level surface. In Reno, NV, (4 inches per year) our soil was DG (Decomposed Granite), which was hard as a rock when dry -- just needed sand on top of it for a cushion for the riding surface. In Virginia, we get 30-40 inches per year, so we need a more solid base and good drainage. Of course, in all cases, I was not trying to create a riding surface that would stand up to heavy use, like a roping or reining arena -- just someplace my wife can train her horses safely.

However, if I get around to stripping off the sand, I will strongly consider an intermediate layer of clay, which would help to hold the gravel, as well. It will mean adding some additional drainage, but that was the cheapest part of the whole project. Thanks for the advice.

Kip

 

[Casimir]

Mike:

I sent you a PM. The guy owns a Hydroseeding business, but I am reluctant to post his name, address and phone number in a public forum without his permission. He may or may not appreciate the publicity /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif, and I want to stay on his good side. We also buy most of our hay from him. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Kip

 

[cowboydoc]

You may be totally right here and that is the only way to go for an outside arena. I may be way off base trying to give advice for an arena in VA.

Where were you at in Southern Idaho? Our main ranch is in southern Idaho in the Owhyees down by Murphy and Oreanna. Sure could use a good winter there. We're down to 3000 head on about 60,000 acres there now. Five years ago we were running about 4500 head. BLM and forest service keeps cutting back the grazing days on the leased ground. Wish we would have those extra 1500 head this year with prices being what they are.

 

[Casimir]

We spent about 5 years in Burley, where I worked for BLM beating up on you poor ranchers /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif. I was a Range Con then, but I worked in the opposite side of the state from your place - Soda Springs and Malad. Later, I worked in Arizona and Nevada. I "retired" from BLM in May, but currently have a contract with them to provide Budget consulting services (specialized analyses at the Washington Level). My wife still works for BLM as a Wild Horse Specialist.

If you ever have occasion to meet the current BLM State Director in Idaho, tell him I said to go easy on you /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. He almost lost a leg when a tractor-mounted PHD picked up some old barbed wire and wrapped it around his leg. He was ranching near Bliss at the time, but came back to work for BLM when the current administration offered him the State Director job.

 

[SteveBenson]

>I still think that a layer (2-3 inches) of stone dust, unwashed, would allow drainage but not have rocks work through it.

This may solve your problem, but it was tough for me to see how big your gravel was from your picture. When we did our arena they recommended a 6" base of stonedust underneath your footing. We checked around and most seemed to agree with that if you wanted to do it right (because it ain't cheap).

We built a 120'x240' arena last year. The guy we hired to do it (an excavator who has horses too) stripped off all the topsoil (about a foot of it), graded to 1%, brought in 1' of bank run gravel (fine to <1"), compacted with a huge compacting roller, then added 6" of stone dust, compacted again, the 2-3" of stonedust mixed with 2-3" of white clay (not very good clay, kind of sandy but it's the best we got around here) for the footing.

 

[cowboydoc]

I worked for BLM beating up on you poor ranchers

Wow small world. I'm not saying the BLM isn't right cutting back on grazing days. It's just tough as you know being from that area. We do quite a few seeding contracts for the BLM too.