Armed pilots

[Phred]

I agree. Handguns and strong doors are the way to go.
Remeber we are talking about point blank range.
Some law enforcement officers will miss a target with a handgun at 50 yrds, much less your average untrained joe. However, keep in mind that fairly often some mindless gang member murders someone with a handgun. The reason? Close range with a handgun is not that complicated.

As for the pressue issue; light loads with the right kind of bullets can almost eliminate this problem and still stop the bad guys.

Fred

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

3rd Base:
You may be right that airline execs have asked their lawyers or insurers about liability questions involved in arming the flight crew. I don't know whether they have or not, but certainly it would be a prudent inquiry to make. My gut feeling, however, is that the real source of the current debate is the unwavering anti-gun bias of the current times. For what is apparently a large number of people, guns are just simply bad, and any arguments to prevent their proliferation are good arguments, regardless of the absence of factual basis. Given a choice, I'd prefer to have a couple of armed and well-trained guards on each flight whose only job is security, but like most middle of the road types, I'd prefer not to pay for them. So, I'd vote to arm the crew, and hope that they and the airlines would have sense enough to ensure real training and practice on a regular basis.

 

[3rdbase]

I see your point Charlie, but I think the "defend the cockpit" forces could easily overcome the anti gun group and to date,there really aren't any players in the discussions except airline management, legal counsel and the pilots. Legislation passed by Congress (post 9-11), was noncomittal regarding the issue, so the govt. has already given airlines the right to do it if they choose. A prominent self defense firearm training school has already offered to provide the training free of cost to airlines willing to take them up on it. Many details to be worked out, like what happens to the firearms at night etc.
Anyway, as you can imagine we pilots are all for it. Regarding your suggestion to have armed guards in the cabin-that is an unecessary expense. Almost all flights have off duty crewmembers riding on passes. They would gladly volunteer to provide this service.

 

[cp1969]

Re: Other stuff

3rdbase said, "Wrong cp. Those disasters would have been averted."

How can you say that? Did you know the crews? Did you know whether they could hit the broad side of a barn with a handgun? Under duress? How could you know what the bullets would or would not have struck?

I'm willing to admit that if the pilots had been armed, they might have been able to stop the highjackers. But to categorically state that they would have been stopped is nonsense.

 

[cp1969]

Re: Other stuff

Second thought: If arming flight crew members is a good idea, why is it that we're talking about arming pilots instead of the flight attendants? There are more of them; they'll be the first to encounter hijackers; plus, the pilots do have an airplane to fly (the flight attendants can surely postpone serving Cokes long enough to have a quick gun battle).

 

[3rdbase]

Re: Other stuff

Hi Cp,
I'd like to respond to your post/question. First, yes I did know them. The two pilots of the pentagon crash and all the flight attendants on that flight were friends of mine.
Second, nobody thinks it's a good idea to arm anybody in the cabin. Your issues about accuracy have nothing to do with what is being considerd. The discussion thus far has been to provide firearms to the cockpit crew for defense of the flight controls. It would take quite a bit of time to break through recently strengthened cockpit doors, and this warning time is more than adequate to allow for preparation. No sane individual is talking about arming cabin crews becuause the issue is not about body count, it's about flying an airplane into a building. To do that, you must have access to the flight contols. Trained, incognito air marshalls are being used for the cabin.
Your question about pilots and firing accuracy is self apparent. The cockpit door is about two feet away from the back of my seat. I'm sure any human could make that shot.

 

[RoyJackson]

Re: Other stuff

Your question about pilots and firing accuracy is self apparent. The cockpit door is about two feet away from the back of my seat. I'm sure any human could make that shot.

According to the statistics I've read (mostly NRA and in various gun magazines), most gunfights are within 5 feet and are over in about 5 seconds. Reckon these are mostly cops and robber situations, not self defense.

Most of the folks against arming pilots are members of the anti-gun crowd.
I can never figure those people out...blaming inanimate objects for crime and killing. Or, they've got some utopian idea of the innate goodness of mankind (hear that, bin Laden?).
I do understand the UN's opposition to individual gun owership....their goal is domination, not peace.