ASV Undercarriage design 4500/4810

[Bison]

A true metal to metal seal would be the best but it would be a though go to get it to work in there.

There ain't a name or # on the seals i can find.
I bought my ASV used with 2300 hrs on it,i found out to late that most axles had no oil left in them, and there was evidence some axles had been changed out before and some bogies had broke at the torsion bar and where rewelded .(musta led a hard life)

Both track frames where cracked behind the front wheels as well.I knew that at time of purchase(seems to be common on them).
Beefing it up is the only solution.

 

[bz1]

Hmm, appreciate your thoughts on the metal seals. Now that I've seen your pictures I can't help but wonder if one could save some money by purchasing the seals elsewhere and just making your own spacer. Do the seals themselves have any markings on them? The seal cartridge is probably a special part. The only place I can imagine the frames cracking would be where the first crossover web goes from one side to the other. Is that what happened? I should look at mine in the same spot. My machine has 1800 hours on it and the owner said he never did any heavy digging, rock work, or anything real heavy with the machine but who knows. He only used it for final landscape grading and loading trucks from loose dirt piles. I hope I don't have any surprise issues. This has been an interesting discussion, thanks for putting up with my questions.

 

[Bison]

Yep,they crack right at first cross web corner.
Mine was/is used with a mulcher and brush cutter.
Making a spacer and 2 seals or even 3 seals would cost the same as OEM seals,but there are no common seals avalable in this size.
+ the shaft is to soft for the seal.
If it was hardened or chromed then yes.

i don't mind questions,i like answers too if i want to know something.
Thats what this board is for.

 

[bz1]

So I take it you checked and these are not standard seal sizes from a catalog? Given the wide range of seals sizes available I can't imagine why they would put a special seal in there but it sounds like you know what you talking about. The reason I'm asking is that I think I can get those sleeves made for next to nothing while the best price I can find on them is $50. Bison, you seem to know quite a bit about how this stuff works so tell me what exactly is background with equipment like this?

 

[Bison]

I been welder/machinist/hd mechanic all my life.
I own and operate a ranch as well.
I maintain/fix/rebuild all my own equipment and for others as well.
when i have a breakdown on something(don't matter what machinery,from a tiny rototiller to a D7 cat) i look for the cause and if possible i will improve or modefy it.

OEM has a tendency to have parts made to certain specs or sizes if the design calls for it.

I've only had this ASV since sept 010..I needed a mulcher and this thing was all i could afford,but wish now i had left it where it was.
I found out nothing is "easy" on these machines,they ain't even easy on fuel.

If you really look at how these undercarriages are build it becomes clear(at least to me) that the parts are cheaply designed to last only so long and replacement of an axle assembly is cheaper in the long run versus trying to fix or rebuild it,cause all parts are affected by wear.But parts are expensive and there is more of them than i care for.
The engineers certainly did not have longivity or rebuild/accessabillity for owner/operator or mechanic in mind.

 

[Digdeep]

I want to say that I think the two of you have an excellent exchange of information going on. I can't really help you with your repairs because I own a RC50 which is completely different than your machines. However, I used to sell against these machines as a Bobcat salesman, and I still follow the industry pretty closely (I'm actually a fanatic) both through these forums and many contacts I've made throught the years. I can tell you that none of the machines you listed in the first post are still in production at all. The 4810 was the last of it's kind with that undercarriage and ASV stopped making it sometime around 2000-2001. I do know that ASV did come out with a wheel tube on their PT100s that is a full metal face seal (duo cone). I'm not sure it will work on your machine, but it is worth a shot. Good luck.

 

[Bison]

Hey Digdeep,thanks for the info on the metal seals,its worth looking into altough i don't think these seals will swap in without an issue in our tubes.

The 4810 was still produced in 02 as my parts machine is an 02.

 

[Digdeep]

Hey Digdeep,thanks for the info on the metal seals,its worth looking into altough i don't think these seals will swap in without an issue in our tubes.

The 4810 was still produced in 02 as my parts machine is an 02.

Thanks. I was just going off my memory. I hope everything isn't a year or two off

I'm thinking you should definitely check into the wheel tubes because I do know that the RC100 used the same 10" and 14" wheels.

 

[Tags]

I been welder/machinist/hd mechanic all my life.
I found out nothing is "easy" on these machines,they ain't even easy on fuel.

If you really look at how these undercarriages are build it becomes clear(at least to me) that the parts are cheaply designed to last only so long and replacement of an axle assembly is cheaper in the long run versus trying to fix or rebuild it,cause all parts are affected by wear.But parts are expensive and there is more of them than i care for.
The engineers certainly did not have longivity or rebuild/accessabillity for owner/operator or mechanic in mind.

Not owning an older ASV but owning a CAT 287B I don't think the engineering improved much. I agree 100% with what you said. This is a crude and archaic design and takes nothing but brute force, aggravation, and lots of busted knuckles to work on. I've rebuilt some of my tubes but never will again, the bummer is that it is incredibly expensive to replace the assemblies also and almost as much work.

Just like everything though, when it works it is an incredibly capable machine, but when it breaks it is incredibly frustrating to understand how the "common guy" is supposed to wrench on this stuff without several specialty tools.

 

[redprospector]

I've got an old 4810 too, and everything you guy's are talking about................I've been through. I had to totally rebuild the frame for the rollers on the left side, then I got about another 50 hours out of her and she quit me. I'm not sure if it's the drive motors, valve, or the pump.
I decided to replace it with a new PT-100G. I think that was a worse mistake than buying the 4810 was. :laughing:

Andy