ASV Undercarriage design 4500/4810

[bz1]

Bison, are you out there? I just started tearing down my 4500 and replacing the tracks. I must say that I believe the 4500 is an extremely easy machine to work on the undercarriage. Granted I haven't dug into the axle assemblies yet so I'm not familiar with what Tags is talking about yet. I did take the track off one side and I have two of the axle tubes removed. Here's what I found. It only took me a couple of hours to remove one track. Now that I've done it I think I could have it off in an hour. Most of that time would be spent blocking up the machine. The undercarriage is extremely easy to take apart and the track was extremely easy to remove. I really like the fact that ASV almost always used through bolts with nuts on this undercarriage. This makes it much easier to remove rusty bolts because you can always cut them off without ruining threaded holes. The good news is that all my wheels on both sides turn and spin very freely. I think this means that all the bearings are in good shape. This should also mean that my axle shafts will be in good shape. I have two axle assemblies removed so far and they are in excellent shape. I do have two axle seals that I know leak so I'm sure I'm looking at taking those axle tubes apart. I think I will replace the seals while apart. Also, I see no cracks or damage to any undercarriage parts such as the frame. I don't think this machine was abused. Some questions for Bison or anyone else with knowledge of this machine:
1. I assume you would recommend filling the tubes with grease rather than gear lube?
2. Are there any tricks to removing the seals and bearings from the axles? Can one just press the shaft one direction to remove the seals and bearing on one side and turn it around and go the other way? My bearing and seals are different from those on the 4810 so your experience may not apply exactly but I'd like to know how you took yours apart.
3. With 1800 hours on this machine should I take apart axle tubes that are not currently leaking?

 

[bz1]

More questions:
4. I also have a seal leaking on the input shaft of the planetary drive. What are your thoughts on using grease in the planetary instead of gear oil?
5. Have you ever had the planetary apart? If so, can it be taken apart without disassembling from machine? It looks to me that this might be possible.
5. Do you know if there are service manuals available for these machines?

 

[Bison]

More questions:
4. I also have a seal leaking on the input shaft of the planetary drive. What are your thoughts on using grease in the planetary instead of gear oil?
5. Have you ever had the planetary apart? If so, can it be taken apart without disassembling from machine? It looks to me that this might be possible.
5. Do you know if there are service manuals available for these machines?

You can down load a manual at trackloader.com: The Leading Track Loader Site on the Net free of charge.

I have not had a planetairy apart yet but i'm sure you can get it apart easy enough after you remove the brng support on the outside.
On my parts machine the planetary's are gone but there is a seal on the housing where the sprocket used to be.
I would not run grease in the planetairy for the reason if the brgs go you wont notice till the whole assembly is toast(these things are pricy)
I think i gave directions for axle disassembly in a earlier post..didn't I?

 

[bz1]

Sorry, yes you did describe how you got it apart in another thread, I found it. I also think the planetary can be taken apart after removing the bearing support provided the planetary bearings are not pressed into the housing that needs to come off the input shaft to replace the seal. The input shaft is what would stay on the machine. I think I might try this first to avoid having to disconnect and remove the drive motor. I still wonder though about using light EP grease in the planetary. I know lots of guys do this in other types of gear boxes that are supposed to use gear oil and they have good luck with it. There are posts on this forum about doing this but I didn't see anyone who's done this with a planetary. What do you think of the following approach for all the wheel axles? They all turn very nicely so I'll assume the bearings are good and I will check the oil level in each one. If it is low, indicated it had leaked out, I will put a small amount of oil in, rotate them, stand them on end, see if they leak badly. If the oil seems to stay in place I will not take them apart but fill them up with light bearing grease. The two axles that leak bad are both bogie wheels and those I will take apart and replace anything that needs it. Since I am only using this machine around the farm for short jobs that rarely exceed an hour or two I will keep a close eye on the axle seals looking for leaks. My thought is that given how easy the track was to remove I won't fix axles seals that don't appear to be leaking at this time and I'll just have to do them later if they start leaking bad. It really was not very hard to get any of the axle assemblies off this machine.

 

[bz1]

Update: I have been working on the right side of machine only. I have about 5 of my wheel axles removed from machine and wheels removed from axles. In general everything is in really good shape and came apart easily. No worn out axle slots, wheels are mostly in pretty good shape, I don't think I need to replace any plastic wheels but may switch a few of the better ones to the rear axle position. All my axles except the two leaking ones had a considerable amount of oil in them, around a pint or more. On my axles all the outboard shaft seals that are now visible are the same part number for every axle. These outboard seals do have a manufacturers part number on them and I think I identified the manufacturer. It appears that the outboard seal can easily be removed without pressing out the bearings. Question: do I need to replace the inner seal too or just the outer seal. Not having this apart I really can't see what the inner seal does. Starting with the outboard seal the exploded parts list seems to indicate that my axles have an outboard seal pressed into the axle tube, then a spacer/collar with that fits into the axle tube on the same ID as the outboard seal, it has an oring around it's perimeter to seal its OD. Then another inboard seal which appears to fit inside the collar and runs on the same shaft OD as the outboard bearing. Both seals appear to run directly on the shaft. Not sure why the inboard seal is inside a collar. The last part is the bearing itself which sites inboard of the inboard seal and up against a shoulder on the shaft. I wonder if I can remove both seals without pressing the bearings? Here is a pic of my bogey wheel axle diagram.
I also found the manufacture and his part number on my planetary drives. The manufacturer can provide a repair manual and parts.
Another question: got any neat tricks for removing one of the 3/8 pipe drain/fill plugs in the axles after the socket hole gets rounded out? I've never had a tapered pipe thread get this stuck, I put 600 ft-lbs torque on it trying to get it loose and it held until the socket hole rounded out.

 

[Bison]

If these axle seals are different than on the 4810 then i cant help you with how to remove them.
Please post a pic of the things once you get it apart.
Maybe post the dimensions as well.

As for the oil plug removal,i use an allen socket and extension and pound the extension with the hammer a couple times good and hard,they come out easy after that.
if you buggerd up the hex already,then welding a washer and nut to the plug will prob get them out me thinks

 

[bz1]

I'll post pics when I can get some meaningful ones. The outer seals look to be totally rubber encased and might be easy to remove since they actually stick out of the axle tube about 1/8 inch. Yes I already buggered up the hex. I do the same as you by hammering the socket and extension before trying to loosen. This one wouldn't give. I even pounded the next larger metric hex into the thing using it to forge a new hex, the thing still stripped. I ended up drilling out the center of the plug and threaded it 3/8-16. I did this from unerneath so not to get cuttings inside the axle tube. I figured this would allow me to get grease in and I'd plug it with a short bolt sealed with locktite. You have a good idea, maybe I'll just weld the bolt in and use the bolt head to remove the plug. The weld heat should help loosen the plug too. Thanks. This is the only thing I've had trouble getting apart so far.

 

[bz1]

Bison, do you have any idea what the dimensions of the outer sprocket tubes are when they are new? I'm looking for the OD and ID dimensions to help figure out if I should replace them or not.

 

[Bison]

I haven't a clue my friend.
Mine are somewhat worn too but i did not look to deep into that yet.
I think as long as the sprocket rims are still clearing the tracks one is OK

 

[bz1]

I called my dealer, he had some parts on the shelf and measured them for me. Here is what they are new in inches:
Inner sleeve = 9/16 ID, 1.0 OD
Outer sleeve = 1-1/16 ID, 1.5 OD
They had no idea what the wear limites are.

My old inner sleeves are worn to 0.95" max OD so if I end up replacing anything I'm just going to buy some 1.0" ID x 1.5" OD drawn tubing and replace the outer ones only. This will take a lot of the play back out and get me closer to the correct sprocket diameter for less than half the cost of all new parts. What do you think of that idea? BTW, if I have to replace any of the 1/2" sprocket bolts I found a source for new ones at about $5 instead of the $17 each the dealer wants.