Avoiding Tax on New Tractor??

/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #81  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So, here is the question. What in general gets folks subjected to an audit????? Any advice on how to avoid this experience?
Bob )</font>

Apparently owning a farm while buying a tractor is not sufficient, at least here. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #82  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So, here is the question. What in general gets folks subjected to an audit????? Any advice on how to avoid this experience?
Bob )</font>

Apparently owning a farm while buying a tractor is not sufficient, at least here. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #83  
OK Guys back again from hospital. "What causes audit?" Many things, luck of the draw, as is suspected in my case. Out of state purchases (not as in my case, I bought within my state) marked it as business and set it up to pay use tax on. To many things going on and finally fined in afternoon of 4-15th this will never happen again. CPA and I have agreed on this. Had we gone over it together we would / should have caught it. We didn't and now we fix it, no big deal I hope.

Again auditor seems as if he's trying to help. 34 years experience and no ladders to climb or axes to sharpen. It also is the luck of the draw on the auditor, if this were a different person it may be different. Put multiple people together and you will always get multiple answers. Finally he told the CPA that after all of our businesses there is a series of numbers i.e. CPA number is "xyz" a lawyer is number "mno" etc. The states knows the each type of business avg. "x" amount of sales / use tax per year if you fall out side of this range it throws up a flag, so this is just an example of 1 of many criterias the states use. If we all knew what triggered the flags then it would be a total random lottery.
hope this helps keep everyone thinking, I know we will be making changes to our business to try to make sure this does not happen again. CPA believes though that we will be audited again in the next 1-5 years to make sure that we are doing things correctly and we will be!
chuck
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #84  
OK Guys back again from hospital. "What causes audit?" Many things, luck of the draw, as is suspected in my case. Out of state purchases (not as in my case, I bought within my state) marked it as business and set it up to pay use tax on. To many things going on and finally fined in afternoon of 4-15th this will never happen again. CPA and I have agreed on this. Had we gone over it together we would / should have caught it. We didn't and now we fix it, no big deal I hope.

Again auditor seems as if he's trying to help. 34 years experience and no ladders to climb or axes to sharpen. It also is the luck of the draw on the auditor, if this were a different person it may be different. Put multiple people together and you will always get multiple answers. Finally he told the CPA that after all of our businesses there is a series of numbers i.e. CPA number is "xyz" a lawyer is number "mno" etc. The states knows the each type of business avg. "x" amount of sales / use tax per year if you fall out side of this range it throws up a flag, so this is just an example of 1 of many criterias the states use. If we all knew what triggered the flags then it would be a total random lottery.
hope this helps keep everyone thinking, I know we will be making changes to our business to try to make sure this does not happen again. CPA believes though that we will be audited again in the next 1-5 years to make sure that we are doing things correctly and we will be!
chuck
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #85  
All you can do is try then get busted. It's pretty simple to me.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #86  
All you can do is try then get busted. It's pretty simple to me.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #87  
Realize that many states have "reciprocity" with their neighboring states and share information on large sales. So someone in a small state like Mass, Rhode Island, New Jersey or Delaware may run to a surrounding state and find that the surrounding state turns his purchase into his home state. . . oh, and that can trigger an audit.

Now I suppose if you really want to get sneaky, and are **** bent on being a tax cheat, then you might want to skip a state. Say you are a Pennsylvania resident, instead of going to Ohio to buy a tractor, skip over Ohio and go all the way to Indiana. It is very doubtful that Indiana would have tax reciprocity with Pennsylvania . . . however it is likely that shipping costs would be nearly equal to sales taxes and you'd certainly have a long way to go for service. Of course your local dealer could service your tractor, but he'd likely put you behind his own customers when it comes to the priority stack.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #88  
Realize that many states have "reciprocity" with their neighboring states and share information on large sales. So someone in a small state like Mass, Rhode Island, New Jersey or Delaware may run to a surrounding state and find that the surrounding state turns his purchase into his home state. . . oh, and that can trigger an audit.

Now I suppose if you really want to get sneaky, and are **** bent on being a tax cheat, then you might want to skip a state. Say you are a Pennsylvania resident, instead of going to Ohio to buy a tractor, skip over Ohio and go all the way to Indiana. It is very doubtful that Indiana would have tax reciprocity with Pennsylvania . . . however it is likely that shipping costs would be nearly equal to sales taxes and you'd certainly have a long way to go for service. Of course your local dealer could service your tractor, but he'd likely put you behind his own customers when it comes to the priority stack.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #89  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Realize that many states have "reciprocity" with their neighboring states and share information on large sales. So someone in a small state like Mass, Rhode Island, New Jersey or Delaware may run to a surrounding state and find that the surrounding state turns his purchase into his home state. . . oh, and that can trigger an audit.

Now I suppose if you really want to get sneaky, and are **** bent on being a tax cheat, then you might want to skip a state. Say you are a Pennsylvania resident, instead of going to Ohio to buy a tractor, skip over Ohio and go all the way to Indiana. It is very doubtful that Indiana would have tax reciprocity with Pennsylvania . . . however it is likely that shipping costs would be nearly equal to sales taxes and you'd certainly have a long way to go for service. Of course your local dealer could service your tractor, but he'd likely put you behind his own customers when it comes to the priority stack.


)</font>

Bob, I see this all the time with car deals. Here in New England all the states DO have treaties. So we're required to collect 5% on a car in our own state, Massachusetts, when we sell to a resident of some other state.

If their state has a higher rate, they pay the difference there.

We collect the tax, then fill out a form with buyer's social security # and hand the money to the Dept of Revenue. They give a stamped computerized receipt which proves to the other state the tax was really paid.

That's how they get around the bogus bill of sale issue that would be rampant otherwise, all those $25,000 tractors that somehow sold for just $900.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #90  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Realize that many states have "reciprocity" with their neighboring states and share information on large sales. So someone in a small state like Mass, Rhode Island, New Jersey or Delaware may run to a surrounding state and find that the surrounding state turns his purchase into his home state. . . oh, and that can trigger an audit.

Now I suppose if you really want to get sneaky, and are **** bent on being a tax cheat, then you might want to skip a state. Say you are a Pennsylvania resident, instead of going to Ohio to buy a tractor, skip over Ohio and go all the way to Indiana. It is very doubtful that Indiana would have tax reciprocity with Pennsylvania . . . however it is likely that shipping costs would be nearly equal to sales taxes and you'd certainly have a long way to go for service. Of course your local dealer could service your tractor, but he'd likely put you behind his own customers when it comes to the priority stack.


)</font>

Bob, I see this all the time with car deals. Here in New England all the states DO have treaties. So we're required to collect 5% on a car in our own state, Massachusetts, when we sell to a resident of some other state.

If their state has a higher rate, they pay the difference there.

We collect the tax, then fill out a form with buyer's social security # and hand the money to the Dept of Revenue. They give a stamped computerized receipt which proves to the other state the tax was really paid.

That's how they get around the bogus bill of sale issue that would be rampant otherwise, all those $25,000 tractors that somehow sold for just $900.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #91  
WHy don't you just come to New Hampshire and buy. We have no sales tax and we don't tell your home state either.

The malls just over the Mass/NH border usually have more Mass license plates in the parking lot than NH plates. In fact the big mall in Nashua has the buildings in NH and the parking lot in Mass. One store was even built with a slight jog in a corner to insure that it was at least 10 feet from the state line inside NH.

Live Free or Die.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #92  
WHy don't you just come to New Hampshire and buy. We have no sales tax and we don't tell your home state either.

The malls just over the Mass/NH border usually have more Mass license plates in the parking lot than NH plates. In fact the big mall in Nashua has the buildings in NH and the parking lot in Mass. One store was even built with a slight jog in a corner to insure that it was at least 10 feet from the state line inside NH.

Live Free or Die.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #93  
I live in northeast MA, and we routinely make purchases in NH (Seabrook, etc). I completely agree that the parking lots are full of more MA cars than NH cars.
What's more, most of the big-box stores in NH are closer to my house than another store of the same brand in MA. If I wanted to purchase from them within MA, I'd have to drive further than when we go to NH.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #94  
I live in northeast MA, and we routinely make purchases in NH (Seabrook, etc). I completely agree that the parking lots are full of more MA cars than NH cars.
What's more, most of the big-box stores in NH are closer to my house than another store of the same brand in MA. If I wanted to purchase from them within MA, I'd have to drive further than when we go to NH.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #95  
This doesn't answer the original poster question but we are good at getting of topic here on TBN /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I had an accounting teacher in college who used to perform audits on folks. He would go door to door asking people if such and such performed work for you and how much did you pay them. He said they were usually very forthcoming with info. He said most of the prospective auditees came from anonymous tips to the IRS. Be careful who you brag to that you don't pay taxes!
Better yet pay your taxes so you can sleep at night!
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #96  
This doesn't answer the original poster question but we are good at getting of topic here on TBN /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I had an accounting teacher in college who used to perform audits on folks. He would go door to door asking people if such and such performed work for you and how much did you pay them. He said they were usually very forthcoming with info. He said most of the prospective auditees came from anonymous tips to the IRS. Be careful who you brag to that you don't pay taxes!
Better yet pay your taxes so you can sleep at night!
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #97  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( WHy don't you just come to New Hampshire and buy. We have no sales tax and we don't tell your home state either.
)</font>
If the machine is financed they do.. A copy of the UCC certificate is forwarded to Mass and the prospective county to boot. So, you really aren't hiding from any tax man.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #98  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( WHy don't you just come to New Hampshire and buy. We have no sales tax and we don't tell your home state either.
)</font>
If the machine is financed they do.. A copy of the UCC certificate is forwarded to Mass and the prospective county to boot. So, you really aren't hiding from any tax man.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #99  
Since the UCC system is primarily used for debtor tracking not sales tax avoidance tracking, and the fact that NH and Mass have a reciprocal agreement to exchange UCC info, yes you are right. I believe that Mass is the only state that NH has an agreement with, but I could be wrong.

What Mass does with that info is their business and NH has no control over it. NH sends the info to the UCC division of the Mass Sec of State. After that, well that is a Mass issue.

FWIW, here is a small blurb from the NH UCC website explaining what the purpose of UCC filings is.

The UCC Division serves the commercial lending/banking community by acting as a repository for filed documents which perfect security interests in certain personal property used as collateral for loans. These filings help a secured creditor establish priority claims on assets in the event of debtor bankruptcy, insolvency or default. The Division is responsible for providing a universally accessible, secured transaction registry for users and beneficiaries of the UCC process. Our goal is to make New Hampshire’s UCC process attractive to businesses and investors. To that end, we strive to provide accurate and current information about filings and attachments, in order to provide commercial lenders and other interested parties with an accurate filing history of the debtor.
 
/ Avoiding Tax on New Tractor?? #100  
Since the UCC system is primarily used for debtor tracking not sales tax avoidance tracking, and the fact that NH and Mass have a reciprocal agreement to exchange UCC info, yes you are right. I believe that Mass is the only state that NH has an agreement with, but I could be wrong.

What Mass does with that info is their business and NH has no control over it. NH sends the info to the UCC division of the Mass Sec of State. After that, well that is a Mass issue.

FWIW, here is a small blurb from the NH UCC website explaining what the purpose of UCC filings is.

The UCC Division serves the commercial lending/banking community by acting as a repository for filed documents which perfect security interests in certain personal property used as collateral for loans. These filings help a secured creditor establish priority claims on assets in the event of debtor bankruptcy, insolvency or default. The Division is responsible for providing a universally accessible, secured transaction registry for users and beneficiaries of the UCC process. Our goal is to make New Hampshire’s UCC process attractive to businesses and investors. To that end, we strive to provide accurate and current information about filings and attachments, in order to provide commercial lenders and other interested parties with an accurate filing history of the debtor.
 

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