B2782 Snow Blower modifying

[Baby Grand]

Aaron,

<snip>

I have no idea why the manufacturers haven't incorporated UHMW lining in their designs.

Yes - with production volume, the cost could probably be kept very low.
Fit and attachment could be designed into the product.
It would give better performance and differentiate the brand from its competition.
Plus, you'd have a whole new line of wear parts to sell!
-Jim

 

[aczlan]

Would 1/8" be thick enough for the impeller blades, or should I use something thicker like 1/4" or 1/2" UHMW?
I can get a 12x24 piece of oil impregnated 1/2 UHMW for $36, or regular 1/4" UHMW for $20.

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[bumperm]

Yes, 1/8" thick material has more than adequate strength to line the paddles. No need for oil impregnated, regular will do fine.

 

[abcuster]

Wow - awesome idea and workmanship! Wish you lived closer..... I've got a virgin snow blower you could have for a few months. Maybe you can send me a B2782 kit? That way you get the profits instead of Kubota.... :thumbsup:

 

[aczlan]

Yes, 1/8" thick material has more than adequate strength to line the paddles. No need for oil impregnated, regular will do fine.

Even with a 3/4" gap (from the impeller tip to the drum) to fill?

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

Ordered 5 8"x100" strips of 1/8" virgin UHMW for about $60 shipped.

Probably not as good as a big sheet, but its a lot cheaper and it should make the corners in the chute easier (one piece up the back and two pieces for the sides).
If its not heavy enough to use on the impeller, I will order a piece of something thicker (1/4", 3/8" or 1/2").

Aaron Z

 

[bumperm]

Even with a 3/4" gap (from the impeller tip to the drum) to fill?

Aaron Z

Aaron,

I would think so. UHMW is fairly stout stuff. That guy that's selling the rubber flap kits (using fabric reinforced belt material I think) gets good results from the reviews. Course there the performance gain is just from sealing the gaps between the impeller tips and housing. The UHMW we are using does that, but also reduces friction and cuts down on blockages for even better performance. Heck, lining the chute alone gained about 20 to 25 feet more throw from my estimation.

You could always add a steel backing plate to decrease the unsupported area, but I seriously don't think you'll need to. For a partial blade seal (not covering all or most of the blade surface), I don't think you'd want it too thick in any case, as without a steel reinforcing strip you wouldn't mount it on the back side of the blade. So on the front of the blade the snow still want's to slide past the plastic tip. In fact, a bevel on the inboard edge might not be a bad idea if not covering the whole surface of the paddle. With a 3/4 gap, which is pretty wide, it will be important to attach the UHMW well, either with fender washers, with a reinforcement strip instead of washers, or closer to the impeller center so the unsupported part of the UHMW doesn't tend to lever out the fasteners or tear the plastic at the fasteners - as might happen, as an example, if you used self tapping sheet metal screws with no washers.

Where did you find the narrow strips for sale? Much easier to handle than the full sheet I bought!

 

[aczlan]

I would think so. UHMW is fairly stout stuff. That guy that's selling the rubber flap kits (using fabric reinforced belt material I think) gets good results from the reviews. Course there the performance gain is just from sealing the gaps between the impeller tips and housing. The UHMW we are using does that, but also reduces friction and cuts down on blockages for even better performance. Heck, lining the chute alone gained about 20 to 25 feet more throw from my estimation.

Makes sense. I will be using scraps from the chute pieces, so not risking much.

You could always add a steel backing plate to decrease the unsupported area, but I seriously don't think you'll need to. For a partial blade seal (not covering all or most of the blade surface), I don't think you'd want it too thick in any case, as without a steel reinforcing strip you wouldn't mount it on the back side of the blade. So on the front of the blade the snow still want's to slide past the plastic tip. In fact, a bevel on the inboard edge might not be a bad idea if not covering the whole surface of the paddle. With a 3/4 gap, which is pretty wide, it will be important to attach the UHMW well, either with fender washers, with a reinforcement strip instead of washers, or closer to the impeller center so the unsupported part of the UHMW doesn't tend to lever out the fasteners or tear the plastic at the fasteners - as might happen, as an example, if you used self tapping sheet metal screws with no washers.

I am thinking of covering the whole impeller blade and attaching it with large headed pop rivets (might use fender washers too). That will help the snow slide right off.

Where did you find the narrow strips for sale? Much easier to handle than the full sheet I bought!

Found it on eBay. I can post the link when I get home. He has 8"x48" pieces listed and said that he also has 100" pieces available. $3 more for twice as much seemed like a good deal.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

Here is the one I bought: UHMW Plastic Sheet for Jig Stock 1 8" x 8" x 48" Other Sizes Available | eBay

I will update my thread once I get the pieces here.

Aaron Z

 

[bumperm]

Ordered 5 8"x100" strips of 1/8" virgin UHMW for about $60 shipped.

Aaron Z

There's a misunderstanding or goof (could be on my part??). Thought you were talking about 100" long but the eBay link was for 48".

48 is fine for the chute as none of the dimensions are long, though if you want a wrap around one piece for the lower part of the chute on a B2782, 8" isn't gonna be wide enough.

I did consider trying to make do with shorter pieces, if for no other reason than I already had them in stock. UHMW *is* a thermoplastic, and it should oughta heat weld . . . but in practice this is not so easy to do and get acceptable strength - especially on a butt weld. That's why I went with a full 96 X 48 sheet to get the 64" length needed for the impeller housing one piece liner (I'll have replacement pieces for my lifetime :c)

Now I patiently await the snow for proof of concept testing, marketing and IPO - - I'm gonna be rich!

 

[aczlan]

There's a misunderstanding or goof (could be on my part??). Thought you were talking about 100" long but the eBay link was for 48".

48 is fine for the chute as none of the dimensions are long, though if you want a wrap around one piece for the lower part of the chute on a B2782, 8" isn't gonna be wide enough.

I did consider trying to make do with shorter pieces, if for no other reason than I already had them in stock. UHMW *is* a thermoplastic, and it should oughta heat weld . . . but in practice this is not so easy to do and get acceptable strength - especially on a butt weld. That's why I went with a full 96 X 48 sheet to get the 64" length needed for the impeller housing one piece liner (I'll have replacement pieces for my lifetime :c)

I need ~80" for my drum and I agree that trying to weld them would be "interesting" (and not something I want to try). I plan to run three pieces up the back of the chute (like you did for your deflector) and hope for the best.
My blower (Loftness 841S, like Light Commercial Snowblowers three point hitch | Loftness but with a tall spout) )has a "truck loading" chute which is very tall (5'?), so it should be interesting.
The listing is for 48" long pieces, but the seller also has 100" pieces, just doesn't have an ad for them (see the ad text). After some back and forth, I bought 5 100" pieces for $40 (plus $20 shipping) by making an offer on that listing.
I will report back when they show up.

Aaron Z

 

[smfcpacfp]

John,

I appreciated your comment on my You Tube video and I have worried about the wear on the round impeller housing. I had considered "hard surface" welding it at some point in time which would also work. Generally this is used to resurface heavy duty truck beds and buckets that are used to haul mining materials. The impeller housing is pretty thin so I have been hesitant to do this and it would take a lot of time. I like your technique. Have you used your blower at all before you added the liner? I have used mine for 6 or 7 years now. I have only noticed wear in the round impeller housing, nothing really in the chute.

 

[Mysfyt]

I'd be worried about the distortion from all that weld on the housing. I'd try an epoxy coating like Devcon plastic steel or ceramic if you want to spend the money.

 

[bumperm]

I had used my blower for 2 seasons prior to lining it. However, we only had light snow. Prior to lining it, I primed and touched up the paint as I normally would.

The reason for lining with UHMW PE was primarily for performance improvement, no or almost no clogging and greater throw.

Agree with Msfyt, hard surface welding would be of questionably efficacy, both due to distortion and rough surface. If not lining with UHMW, next best fix would be to line it with stainless steel sheet. Tack weld edges and seal seams - I've heard of that being done. However, SS is not as mechanically strong as most ferrous steel, it just doesn't corrode as readily. UHMW, on the other hand, is exceedingly abrasion resistant and slicker than snake snot on a flat rock.

 

[bumperm]

Removed and flipped (front to back) the two 3/4" thick skids - and while I was at it, used the bracket as bolt pattern to make 3 more sets to last me a lifetime. The skids measure >.700" so are doing really well considering 3 seasons, even though we didn't get hammered badly with our drought. 10" the other day though.

Also shown is the new scraper blade. Made from 3/4" X 48" X 4" UHMW PE, I ripped it on the table in half for a 30 degree blade angle. I currently have it set 1/4" above the scraper shoes, so it should wear well.

 

[robstaples]

Bumper, I'm copying your lining of your snowblower. I purchased only 48" long material so I may have to have a seam in the 20" impeller housing. How is the liner attached inside the "tube".. --not the exit spout. Mine seems to have lots of room between impeller and barrel- like 1/2". I know you have a slot hole for expansion but not sure where that is.
Thanks, rob

 

[PILOON]

Just a note to further support your theory.

On Cessna ski equipped aircraft we would always line the bottoms of the skiis with UHMW PE to reduce friction and also because even friction on cold or frozen snow would heat the aluminum enough that when the aircraft came to a standstill the snow would freeze to the ski bottoms making further movement almost impossible.

They were coined LDR bottom liners. (low drag resistance) and offered as an option.
We would use 3/16" UHMV and install along the edges using countersunk rivets about every 2-3" or so.
Here we are talking of 3-4000 lbs at 50-60 mph of punishment, not counting hard landings.

 

[robstaples]

Bumper, after taking my spout off, your pictures made more sense to me. I now understand where and why the slot. Thanks

 

[srs]

Also shown is the new scraper blade. Made from 3/4" X 48" X 4" UHMW PE, I ripped it on the table in half for a 30 degree blade angle. I currently have it set 1/4" above the scraper shoes, so it should wear well.

bumperm, first off GREAT job on the modifications. I do have a question regarding the scraper blade. How did you attach the UHMW PE blade to the blower? Did you counter-sink the bolts so they are recessed? Otherwise the heads of the bolts would scrape the blacktop/concrete driveway, correct? Looking at pictures of the original supplied metal scraper blade the heads of the bolts are on top facing downward and the bolts screw into the blade. But with the UHMW PE blade YOUR bolts face upward with a locking nut on top, sound right? Again beautiful job on your mods. Stanley

 

[bumperm]

SRS,

Sorry I missed your post & questions:

The original scrapper bar on the B2782 was a flat wear bar mounted to the rear lip of the blower using "Plow Bolts". Up until that time, and not being a proper farmer, I'd never heard of plow bolts - they are basically like a carriage bolt with square section of shank, but instead of having a round head they are countersunk so on a plow they would be installed with their heads flush to the plow moldboard. I had already purchased longer plow bolts so I could use washers to space the original scraper bar lower to account for the thickness of my side skids, so simply used those longer plow bolts for mounting the new UHMW edge. I drilled 3/4 of the way through the UHMW to countersink the bolt heads using an undersize drill, so the heads would be a press fit into the countersink holes, then drilled the rest of the way through so the threaded shank of the bolts would be a slip fit. I made no accommodation for the square portion of the plow bolt heads, allowing that to be pulled into the plastic to lock the bolt from turning.

If one wanted to use regular longer bolts for mounting the UHMW, I'd consider using countersunk bolts, drilling correct size (not undersize) holes for the countersink heads, then drill slightly undersize holes for the threads so the bolts can be threaded into the UHMW (one could use a tap for the threads of course - or let the bolts self thread). Then double nut the bolts on the upper side if need be. I used a single plain nut and allow it to compress the UHMW to provide adequate locking.

When drilling the UHMW, expecially if counterboring an existing hole, there will be a strong tendency for the drill bit to catch and pull through deeper into the material. Best to use a drill press and hold downs for the work - or a spacer stop tube on the bit so it can't dig in further than desired.