B7510 Top N Tilt install questions

btolle · Feb 3, 2005

I received my Top N Tilt kit from C & C Machinery today.

Let me say up front that I have no idea what I am doing and have never worked on hydraulic systems before so I need all the help I can get.

I "think" I have the hose connections figured out using the recently posted joystick valve pictures at C & C's website. BTW, if you look at the pictures of the valve at Jojstick Valve Schematics it is a little confusing at first since the joystick is on top of the valve but the pictures of the valve show the valve in an upside down position.

I got 6 hoses with the kit. 4 go from the valve to the hydraulic cylinders and 2 that have a fitting on one end and no fitting on the other end. I "think" one of them is for the return line to the tank (hydraulic reservoir). I don't know that I will have any use for the other one.

Can any of the B7510 or B7500 owners tell me if hydraulic fluid is going to come pouring out of the hydraulic block on the side of the transmission when I disconnect it to run it to the new valve? I know it will lose a little from the line itself but will fluid run out of the transmission case? Just trying to determine if I need a small or large bucket to catch the fluid.

I will probably not get to the installation until at least next week and will still have to have 2 hoses made up locally to go from the power beyond port on the loader valve to the new TnT valve and another one to go from the poser beyond port of the new valve back to the hydraulic block where I remove the loader line power beyone line from and some sort of T to tap into the tank return line.

Any suggestions, guidance, or other information from those who have done this installation will be appreciated.

I will update this thread as work progresses and promise to take pictures.

Bill Tolle

zr1john · Feb 6, 2005

Bill, I just finished putting one of the C&C systems on my new B7800. There are a few issues that you are going to run into. The biggest problem is that you will need a special fitting that has to go into the power beyond port on the joystick valve so that it will work properly. This fitting does not come with the valve, but I now know where to get one.I have taken pictures of how I have mine set up and will try to get some of them posted. You can also email me direct if you want.
John

btolle · Feb 7, 2005

zr1john,

Thanks for your reply. I have sent you a PM but it might be nice if you could post the power beyond valve fitting part number and information about where to get it to the forum in case others are installing the same system.

You can post pictures to the members area of this forum, I think they would be useful to othere as well as to me. If I recall correctly the pictures need to be 100K or less file size.

Thanks,

Bill Tolle

MadReferee · Feb 7, 2005

( I got 6 hoses with the kit. 4 go from the valve to the hydraulic cylinders and 2 that have a fitting on one end and no fitting on the other end. I "think" one of them is for the return line to the tank (hydraulic reservoir). I don't know that I will have any use for the other one.

...

will still have to have 2 hoses made up locally to go from the power beyond port on the loader valve to the new TnT valve and another one to go from the poser beyond port of the new valve back to the hydraulic block where I remove the loader line power beyone line from and some sort of T to tap into the tank return line.)

Looks like you got an extra hose. The return to tank hose needs a fitting. You can tee this line into the loader valve's tank hose at the transmission. Just connect one end of a tee fitting into the transmission and the other two tee legs are used for the loader and aux valve hoses. Make sure you get a tee fitting that has the corrent end fittings.

( Can any of the B7510 or B7500 owners tell me if hydraulic fluid is going to come pouring out of the hydraulic block on the side of the transmission when I disconnect it to run it to the new valve? I know it will lose a little from the line itself but will fluid run out of the transmission case? )

You will get a few drops. Nothing serious or major. More fluid will drain from the hoses than from the block.

( I "think" I have the hose connections figured out using the recently posted joystick valve pictures at C & C's website. )

On that schmetic, "P" is the pressure inlet, "T" is the return to tank line, and "OUT" is the power beyond port (it's on the side of the valve).

zr1john · Feb 7, 2005

Madreferee, do you have the same valve that bob and I did? If so did it come with the power beyond sleeve? Bob the valve is made in Italy by Walvoil. The power beyond sleeve is part # ama5200 and the valve you have is model #SD5. There were none of the ama5200 sleeves in the US and it would take 10 weeks to get one from Italy. The sleeve I used is part # ama5201. It is for a model SD11. The only difference is that it has a larger port size but it will work in your model # SD5 valve. I used an adapter fitting to make it work. There is a Walvoil distributor in Oklahoma and that is where my adapter came from.I had my hydraulic vendor get it for me. I will find out their name for you. Bob you are right in that the valve is upside down from the picture you had. The power beyond sleeve goes in the port marked T (upper left in my picture)and the other port below it becomes the return line or tank hose that will tee into the return line. In my picture you can see the black fitting and that is the power beyond fitting. The manufacturer calls it a "carryover port". Mark from C&C was very helpful but could not come up with the power beyond sleeve for me.
Hope this helps. Bob I have some more pictures and can take more if you want me to. If you send me your home email I would be glad to send you whatever pics you would like.
John

MadReferee · Feb 8, 2005

No, I do not have one of these valves but I can read a hydraulic schematic and am thououghly familiar with open center PB installations.

Your valve should be connected just like the left valve is in the picture on the CCM website since it is NOT the last valve in the circuit (the 3pt is). That being the case, the power beyond sleeve goes in the "output" port.

On that valve, the pressure inlet, tank, and output are SAE 8 threads. The work ports are SAE 6. Assuming the valve is not mislabeled, and the picture supplied on the CCM website is not mislabeled, the correct connection is as I described earlier.

If Mark (CCI) is selling these kits without a PB sleeve in the output port, he is doing a grave injustice to his customers since in almost every single installation, power beyond is required. Mark?

btolle · Feb 8, 2005

Mad,

Thanks for your help.

There is not a power beyond sleeve in the valve. The T (tank) port and the Out (power beyond) port both go into the same cavity in the valve body. I pulled both plugs and can blow air in either port and it comes out the other port.

I will be calling Mark this morning and discussing it with him.

zrljohn: Thanks for alerting me to this issue, you may have saved me a lot of grief had I installed the whole thing and then tried to figure out why it wouldn't work correctly.

Was the place you found the fitting Mcelroy Fluid Power Tulsa, OK ?

My valve does not say SD5 on it but I wouldn't be surprised if the model number and the numbers on the vavlve don't match. The 2 numbers I could find on the valve are 311040 and 5/2P4. Hopefully the OK distributor will know what model it is and what sleeve I need.

I will keep the group up with what I find out.

Bill Tolle

MadReferee · Feb 8, 2005

The power beyond sleeve typically blocks the connection between the output port and the return to tank port while still allowing fluid to flow from the inlet port to the output port.

I just got a note from Mark (CCI) and he is aware of the missing PB sleeves. The TNT kits were part of the Integration Engineering inventory and he was unaware that the sleeves were missing. He will be getting some shortly and asks that everyone be patient.

btolle · Feb 8, 2005

I talked to Mark this morning and as MadReferee said he is getting the power beyond sleeves in, hopefully within the next week. To Mark's credit, he had already sent me a PM before I called him to let me know about the sleeves so he has indeed been watching the forum and trying to take care of us.

Will report back when I get the PB sleeve and hopefully get it all installed a few days after that.

Bill Tolle

zr1john · Feb 8, 2005

Bill, You are correct . The sleeve will seperate the two ports so that they are no longer connected. And Mad you are also correct in that I go from the power beyond port on my loader valve to the P or pressure port on the TNT valve. I then go from the power beyond port on the TNT valve back to the hydraulic block on the tractor which then goes back to the 3 pt on the tractor. As I said eariler Mark was very helpful and was still trying to get me a power beyond sleeve. I just didn't want to wait as I had other options once we got my valve identified. I would like to say that I am very happy with the system and it works great! I wouldn't even of bought a system if it wasn't for what I have read about them from you guys here on Tractorbynet.
Thanks,
ZR1John