B7510 Top N Tilt-Tilt cylinder too long

[ronjhall]

<font color="blue"> You don't happen to know what brand and model number the 4" stroke cylinders are do you? Or who you got them from (in the hope they might have more or know the part #'s)? </font>
As with many things on EBay there was not a makers name on it. It does have some numbers though. I posted a picture of one of the cylinder in Photos.
When I find the invoice. I will get a vendor name.
Click Here
I had bid on these same type cylinder several times over the years. This time I got lucky and bought them for the price I wanted to pay. I have not seen any recently but I'm sure they will come up again.

 

[MadReferee]

I have looked at both the Prince and Chief as they are the only ones I could find that came close. The Prince is better IMO.

The Chief 2x4 requires cutting the fixed tie rod end off and welding a new one (the piston end is removeable) but the price is right. The Prince Wizard is a bit more expensive but will work just fine if you can find one at a reasonable price.

The one Ron has looks like the Prince. I am going to buy it and see how it goes.

 

[ronjhall]

I found the invoice.
Here is a link to the EBay seller. Click Here
Here is the description. Kubota B1700, B2100, B2400 Side Link Cylinders, Welded @ 90 Degrees. Cylinder Ports 9/16-18 ORB Stroke 3 5/16. My apologies. The stroke is 3 5/16 same a my current cylinder. But overall length is a little longer.
PS
The invoice is $15 less than I quoted in my PM to you.

 

[btolle]

Per Henro's post:

Specifically, questions I would have for you are:

What is your fixed lift rod length? 17 1/4" Center to center of holes.

What is the min/max length of the adjustable lift rod? 18 1/2" and 16" (C to C)

What is the retracted length of the tilt cylinder you have now? 17 3/16" (C to C)

Max length: 22 3/8"

Body length: 11" (Body only, no end pieces)

What is the stroke of the tilt cylinder? 5 3/16"

Adjustable link length: 16" to 18 1/2" (C to C)

As you can see the maximum adjustable length (18 1/2") is only 1 5/16" longer than the minimum cylinder length (17 3/16") so there is very little tilt to the left.

I can't afford to lengthen the adjustable link (left) side any more (it is already adjusted to it's max length) or I would have too little lift to clear anything with the blade.

Ideally, a cylinder with the threaded rod ends on it would be the best so I could adjust the length of the cylinder side to match the other side exactly.

Bill Tolle

 

[Henro]

Bill,

From the measurements you have taken, bottom line is that the cylinder you have will not duplicate what your existing mechanical tilt system can do. The tilt cylinder is 1 & 3/16" too long when fully retracted, as you know.

I ran into the same concern when I was considering T&T for my B2910. These B series tractors have 3PH geometry that is on the small side from what I can see. So it is difficult to find an off the shelf tilt cylinder that will be short enough to duplicate what the stock mechanical setup does.

What you certainly need is a cylinder that when fully retracted has a center to center lenght of 16 inches. If you found one of these, and the stroke exceeded the 2.5 inches that your mechanical adjustable lift rod has, then you would gain more tilt in one direction, but would still maintain the same lift that your stock 3PH has and would have the stock amont of tilt in the other direction.

I will measure what my tilt cylinders lenght when fully retracted ended up being. I bought Prince wizzard cylinders and welded my own ends on. I ended up with cylinders that were shorter than the stock adjustable lift rod was when fully retracted, but only because I was able to weld the cylinder ends on myself...Since I have two tilt cylinders, I gained on lift and still have ample tilt on each side. THis does not help you though...

Looking at your measurements, it seems to me there is no way with the cylinder you have that you can get the stock amount of lift from your 3PH, if you use what you have in your hands, and want to tilt the 3PH to both sides. You without question need a tilt cylinder that has a retracted length of 16" or less if you want to duplicate or surpass the stock setup.

When you talk to C&C this is the key point to make. The cylinder they supplied would give you standard lift on the 3PH when fully retracted, and with the hitch level, but would only provide tilt in one direction. Obviously, you would like tilt in both directions. To get this, you would have to extend your adjustable lift rod, but then you loose 3PH lift...Bummer.

You need a cylinder that is shorter than the one you have by about 1.25 inches. No way to get around this that I can see...

While it will not be of much help to you, I will try to get a measurement of what my cylinders ended up being when fully retracted...

edit: I just checked. My tilt cylinders are 15.5 inches center to center when fully retracted. This works well for me...

 

[btolle]

Henro,

Thanks. I feel like a 4" stroke cylinder would work well and be short enough that I could make the ends match the length of the fixed length link when the cylinder is in the center of it's travel.

I am really hoping Mark can tell me who makes his cylinders or can get a 4" storke cylinder for me. If I can get that I can use the threaded rod/welded ends from the cylinder Ihave now. I will call him tomorrow and report back.

Bill Tolle

 

[8561]

Bill - please do post back once you've talked to Mark. I purchased my top link from him but stopped short of buying the side link for the exact reasons you are saying you are having trouble with. Like you, I want to add a tilt cylinder, but need it to be functional to justify the investment. Unless Mark has come up with something new since I talked to him last fall, I don't believe he has a solution to the problem that will get you (and me) a short enough check valved side cylinder. If you do find a solution, PM me and I will buy one too. Thanks.

 

[MadReferee]

Although I cannot speak for him, I don't think Mark has a solution either. When he and I corresponded last, he told me the kits he is selling is the entire inventory from Integration Engineering and that he was liquidating the inventory as a favor to Jim McCuan.

Beyond that I don't think there is a clean solution for the smaller B-series Kubotas and probably other similar smaller CUTs. In my view, the only solution is to find a 2500 psi cylinder with the correct dimensions and weld on the correct end forks. Surplus Center has several cylinders that will work, and so does Prince. I have yet to find a screw-in style of cylinder.

 

[btolle]

Update:

Talked to Mark at C & C today.

He said I can cut 1" off of the side link cylinder and off of the threaded rod that goes into the cylinder. This is the end of the cylinder that is smaller than the body. It is apparently a "fitting" for the threaded rod to go into. That will make the cylinder 1" shorter and should not affect the stroke length.

I can have the holes C & C drilled into the clevis's (forks) welded shut and then redrill the hole for the upper arm about 1/2" closer to the cylinder and the same on the lower end of the cylinder.

The 3 items should give me a 2" shorter overall length. The present minimum length is 17 3/16". The new minimum length will be 15 3/16".

The fixed length rod for the left side is 17 1/4" which will be 2" longer than the minimum length of the cylinder so it should even things out pretty well with the cylinder near mid-stroke.

The present maximum length of the cylinder is 22 3/8", new length will be 20 3/8" which is about 3" longer than the fixed length rod so it would still go farther down on the right than on the left but be a lot closer than it is now.

The adjustable length rod goes from 16" to 18 1/2". If I use the adjustable length rod on the left side I can adjust it out to match the cylinder at it's midpoint and the tilt should be equal.

Will post the results when I get the holes redrilled and the cylinder cut off. It will probably be mid or late week before I get it finished.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Bill Tolle

 

[btolle]

Cut 7/8" off of the cylinder today and redrilled the holes in the top clevis gaining about 5/8" there. The bottom clevis could not go down any further so I redrilled the holes that I had welded up yesterday.

Much better but I had to use the adjustable link to drop the left side down about 1 1/2" to line it up with the cylinder side when the cylinder was 1/2 way extended. I will measure it tomorrow.

This has been sort of a fiasco. I have about 14 hours labor in it at this point. Not entirely C & C's fault though, I mis-measured the hoses and had to get them cut and spliced. Then I goofed on one of them, had a mark on it to cut 12" out and when I looked at the mark I told the guy to cut 21" out so I had to have him make an extension to take care of my error.

I also had to build another bracket for the valve. The original bracket put the power beyond sleeve too far forward and my right arm was up against it most of the time and that hydraulic fluid gets not.

The good news is I did some bush hogging this evening and the power top is really nice. I didn't imagine I would use it bush hogging but that may turn out to be the handiest feature. I have a lot of hills, some of them very steep and still need to do a lot of leveling in some places.

I will try to get some pictures up in the next few days so you can see all of my mistakes /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Bill Tolle