Backhoe Backhoe learning curve

Boondox · Oct 22, 2001

Unless a hurricane brings enough rain to restore my bone dry springhouse, I may have to lay 250 yards of PVC pipe to splice a productive but decades-abandoned springhouse into the existing line leading to the house. I'm torn between renting a trackhoe and buying a backhoe. Seems all that moving means a trackhoe would be faster and easier, but if I got a backhoe I could keep it when the job was done.

Having no hoe experience, what's the learning curve like?

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

JJT · Oct 22, 2001

Guys in my area will do this type of work in an afternoon for less than $250, and we have heavy clay soil. A compact will struggle to do it in a weekend. A newbie will need a few hours to get the feel of the machine and several days to get proficient. I used to run a full size hoe 20 years ago and still contract this typoe of work out to the pro's. You'll need more than 250 yards of water line to justify the purchase of a 3pt or frame mounted hoe, ($7K+).

treeboone · Oct 22, 2001

Pete, I bought a Woods 9000 when I got my L4610. I had almost zero time on a hoe and picked it up pretty quick. Assuming you aren't learning in close quarters (next to the pump house for example,) you should be fine. Start on the end that will be out of sight. By the time you get 50 feet dug, you should be fairly adept, at least able to stay out of trouble. (Having said that, you will still be learning years later.) There is alot that a skilled hoe operator can do, but it should not be overwhelming to dig a simple ditch. When in doubt let go of the controls and think. I would love to have a track hoe AND a tractor.

Jag · Oct 22, 2001

JJT, well said... that sums up my feelings. Yes a hoe in an afternoon, 3 days for the tractor hoe unless you had had a big boy backhoe that would use less setups.. I bought a 3PT hoe with my tractor because I had a lot more work than 250 yards of line.. Also if you are running a waterline you should use a narrower bucket than a standard 16-18 incher.

TWINKLE_TOES · Oct 22, 2001

Pete,
but if I got a backhoe I could keep it when the job was done.
Done deal/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
The bottom of your first ditch will look like a big wash board. The coordination to dig a smooth bottom ditch will take some time. Two joystick hoe's are quick learners.
Al

Boondox · Oct 22, 2001

Don't put thoughts like that in writing -- my wife might see them and I'll never get my hoe! /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

Duckhunter · Oct 22, 2001

Woods 9000 Hoe

Great Hoe! I absolutely love mine. I have both buckets the 12" and 24". My TC45 is sized perfect for it. Is yours self contained (PTO Pump) or hook up to tractor hydraulics? My dealer talked me into self contained saying it will help resale (fit all tractors) and just as powerful. Seems to be right on the power.

treeboone · Oct 22, 2001

Re: Woods 9000 Hoe

Mine is self contained with subframe and 16 (I think) inch bucket with thumb. It runs just fine at 1500 engine rpm. It is the closest thing to a robotic arm that I own. I could pet my dog with this sucker! Save money? No. Save frustration? you bet! I aint got the time to beg someone to come out and tear hell out of my place. I still have trees with bark missing from the moron that put in my septic system 11 years ago. NOBODY cares about my property as much as I do.

What is a tractor without implements?? its a real slow pickup without a radio.

cowboydoc · Oct 22, 2001

I just did alot of digging with my backhoe putting in waterlines for my new barn. I could dig a 4' trench at the rate of about 50' per hour on my 4600. I only have the 18" bucket and it worked fine. Just turned around and used the loader to push it all back in no time. The easiest way to do it is just to rent a trencher. Here you can rent one for $165 a day. But I had the hoe.

Robert_in_NY · Oct 22, 2001

A trencher is the way to go or use a tile plow and not have to dig anything out. It would be a lot cheaper to farm out the work then to buy something you really don't need. I have been looking at getting a Kubota mini excavator but the $35k pricetag is scary when I can rent the machine for $600 a week. If I know I will have enough work for the machine I would buy it in an instant but instead it is cheaper to farm the work out and not have to maintain the equipment. Tractor mounted backhoes are not that effecient when you have to hop off the backhoe to move the tractor every 5-10 feet.

Robert Turk Jr.
Whitetail Splendor Deer Farms
Silver Creek, NY

HR_Mutt · Oct 23, 2001

Boondox
I rented the L48 for a weekend. You'll pick up the operation quickly and probably be looking for other projects/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. Wish I had enough work here to consider owning one.
regards
Mutt

RobS · Oct 23, 2001

Pete, a couple of years back I rented a Bobcat with a hoe attachment. I used it to dig a foundation (crawl space) for a den addition we put on our house. I'd never operated one but got the hang pretty quickly and was it ever fun /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Yes, you can pay someone else to do it, or rent a ditchwitch but I doubt you'd ever regret getting your own hoe. I'm looking forward to the day myself.

One tip someone told me that proved invaluable for a newbie... if you're digging near something you value (like my existing house), extend the hoe all the way out and creep up to the object until the teeth just clear. Dig to your hearts content and you'll never hit your prized object. Once I got the hang of it, I was moving in closer but I never did hit it /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

cowboydoc · Oct 23, 2001

Robert,
You can use the bucket to move the tractor instead of getting off all the time.

dmccarty · Oct 23, 2001

BoonDox,

When I got my JD 4700 and JD 48 backhoe last year I had exactly ZERO exeperience with a backhoe. I sat on the couch reading the manual for the three or four days before the tractor was delivered. I would read the part about the controls, close my eyes and move my hands when I said right, left, back, forward, etc. The wife thought I was nuts but I was able to get on the backhoe and work somewhat intelligently. I certainly was not the smoothest operator but I got the job done. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

As Rob said just stay away from anything valuable! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif The two joystick controls on the JD are very easy to learn. Start out at low engine RPM so the hoe movement wont be as abrupt and take your time. It aint rocket science. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

There is a book on operating backhoes that I found six months or more after getting the tractor. It talks about moving the tractor around with the backhoe and other techniques. Have to be carefull but my backhoe can easily move the back end of the tractor around so I can do some setups without leaving the backhoe seat.

If you can justify spending the dollars I would not worry about learning to use the backhoe. Its just takes a few hours to be somewhat productive. You won't be smooth and feathering the controls but you can dig holes.... [smiles]

Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

Vermonster · Oct 23, 2001

What's the name of the book?

dmccarty · Oct 23, 2001

Vermonster,

I was afraid someone would ask about the book! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I can't remember the name at all. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I'll see if I can find the book tonight. Normally I can put my hand on most of my books but the house is busting at the seams and some books had to be packed up and stored. I THINK I know where this one is hiding... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I KNOW I have this book, Amazon.com tells me so, /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif "Excavation and Grading Handbook" which you can see at
http:// [url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0934041296/104-6531222-5787968 [/url] I don't know if this is the book I'm refering. I have bought a few books at Amazon about roads/farms/tractors and such that were a complete waste of time and money but I think this was a good one. It certainly was not bad but it was over kill for what I needed driveway wise.

My search of Amazon to try to find the book I'm thinking turned up this, "Backhoe Loader Handbook :
Advanced Techniques for ..." Looks very interesting but I don't think I have this one.... I need to buy some
other books so it looks like I'll be ordering this one as well.... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
http:// [url]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0924659726/ref=pd_sim_books/104-6531222-5787968 [/url]

I'll check tonight.....
Later....
Dan McCarty

RichNJ · Oct 23, 2001

Just rented a ditchwitch for $130. Dug a 20" deep X 4" wide trench 106 feet long in 1 hour. Was real easy. Never used one before but learned on the job in 5 minutes. Did not hit any problems like big rocks.
But 250 yds is quite a way for such a small machine.

Robert_in_NY · Oct 23, 2001

You can but it is a pain in the neck, backhoes were designed for small jobs and they work well for them but for ditching and excavator is the correct tool. Your other problem pushing forward is your machine has a tendency to turn.

Robert Turk Jr.
Whitetail Splendor Deer Farms
Silver Creek, NY

Boondox · Oct 23, 2001

How does a witch handle rocks and roots? I was thinking a hoe would let me root around more...no pun intended.

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

Bird · Oct 23, 2001

Pete, as far as the roots are concerned, it'll depend on how big a ditch witch you rent. My brother rented one and I don't remember a model number, but it was one of the models you ride on instead of walk behind, and we laid water and electric lines right through the woods. It had no problem going through 2" to 3" roots. As for rocks . . . well, we don't have any.

Bird