Backhoe Strong?

[hutchman]

I don't see the Kioti backhoe subframe tying into the loader framework at any point.

When I was researching subframes, I discovered a lot of the ones for Kioti, TYM, LS all looked the same or very similar like the same company makes them. A long ladder that fits into a slot on the FEL cross member and a 'C' type bracket that hangs off the bolts around the PTO that holds the rear of the ladder frame (another pin is used in this mount too).

 

[DK35vince]

The 4 point style are easier to hook up because you don't have to stick your head under the tractor to try to line the long ladder frame up to fit in the FEL cross member slot.

You just backup to close like you do when connecting/disconnecting FEL. You mess with the controls until you set the 4 pins in their cradle ... can all be done standing at the rear of the tractor.

Not sure I agree with that.
My sub frame stays with the backhoe and I use the backhoe controls to line up my sub frame into its cradles all while standing at the back of the machine.
I do have to stick my arm under the tractor once the sub frame is in its cradles to insert the lock pins.
Takes me 5 minutes to remove and 5 to 10 minutes to install.

 

[IslandTractor]

Here are a few better pictures of the 'donor' mount I'm using for reference in my build:
View attachment 440558

View attachment 440559

View attachment 440560

The 4 point style are easier to hook up because you don't have to stick your head under the tractor to try to line the long ladder frame up to fit in the FEL cross member slot.

You just backup to close like you do when connecting/disconnecting FEL. You mess with the controls until you set the 4 pins in their cradle ... can all be done standing at the rear of the tractor.

Not quite as easy as that. The issue with 4pt mounts is that all 4 contact points need to be lined up at the same time in 3 dimensions. Not terribly easy even after hooking up hydraulics and controlling the pitch and height of the BH with stabilizers and then backing into the BH. You can only control the BH height and pitch while off the tractor and can only back up the tractor while on the tractor. Not always simple. And, with the Woods, you hook the bottom pins into slots but the top pins are actually bolts that pass through the subframe so need to be lined up nearly perfectly in order to pass the bolt through and then attach the castle nut. You cannot just persuade it though the hole with a hammer as you'll strip the threads.

The advantage of the other style is that you can back the tractor over the subframe, use the BH hydraulics to raise the front part of the subframe to the right height (not nearly as fussy as with 4pt) and then back the tractor on to the front mounts and then adjust the rear mount height before backing the tractor to secure the rear mount. Two steps but each step is easy. I never had to stick my head under the tractor either. Yes, you need to judge where the front part of the subframe is as you raise it but you can do that from the side. Once you have the front mounts lined up and in contact, the rear mount just slides in and you use tapered pins to lock it in place. The tapered pins can be whacked with a mallet/hammer to make the final 1/4" adjustment.

I remember mounting the Kioti BH in 5-10 minutes most of the time. The Woods routinely takes me a minimum of 15 and sometimes double that.

 

[OutBurst]

If something like this were to break then it is very difficult to say the tractor was not misused. Any tractor can look shiny on the outside but have microscopic stress fractures all throughout and because there have already been two cracks, this is much more than definite there will be more in other places as well. I wouldn't take the chance.

 

[chuck172]

Woods definitely has a 4pt subframe. The Kioti subframe is very substantial and attaches to both the front and rear of the tractor at "4 points" but I don't know if that type of subframe is traditionally referred to as a 4pt.

Having owned both Woods and Kioti, I don't think there is a big difference in strength of subframe strategy.

The schematic from michironandequip shows two brackets that are mounted on the machine. These brackets stay with the kioti and accept the backhoe subframe. At only two locations.

 

[IslandTractor]

The schematic from michironandequip shows two brackets that are mounted on the machine. These brackets stay with the kioti and accept the backhoe subframe. At only two locations.

The Kioti has two brackets at the front of the tractor and a saddle type bracket at the rear that is attached to both sides.

Essentially both Woods and Kioti subframe link the BH to four strong points on the tractor. The real difference is simply that the portion of the subframe that tie front and rear and left/right support points together are permanently mounted to the tractor on the Woods and mounted integrally to the subframe on the Kioti.

 

[chuck172]

The Kioti has two brackets at the front of the tractor and a saddle type bracket at the rear that is attached to both sides.

Essentially both Woods and Kioti subframe link the BH to four strong points on the tractor. The real difference is simply that the portion of the subframe that tie front and rear and left/right support points together are permanently mounted to the tractor on the Woods and mounted integrally to the subframe on the Kioti.

So the two points that attach to the rear of the kioti disconnect and connect to the machine with the ladder subframe. I think I understand, thanks.

 

[hutchman]

So the two points that attach to the rear of the kioti disconnect and connect to the machine with the ladder subframe. I think I understand, thanks.

If you look at that link for my build ... one if the posts is a parts diagram and most look it does.

 

[IslandTractor]

So the two points that attach to the rear of the kioti disconnect and connect to the machine with the ladder subframe. I think I understand, thanks.

Yes. Here is a post I made last week in response to someone who was trying to build a subframe for a Kioti. The photos show from various angles the portions of the subframe that are attached to the tractor and those that are attached to the BH. If you look at all the photos I think the story will be clear. Note that all the gray metal below the PTO is part of the subframe attached to the tractor. There is one shot of the BH dismounted and you can see the ladder part that slides into the slot on the tractor mounted subframe to be pinned in place. I know exactly where they are so I can see the holes where the pins are inserted but I admit it doesn't show well in the photo.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ioti-backhoe-subframe-mounts.html#post4236522

 

[RoyJackson]

The dk45 that cracked had the full subframe. The guy just doesn't know what to do. He had it welded once, didn't hold. Cast iron just doesn't always take to welding.

Welding cast iron is tough. To do it properly, one needs to disassemble the components of the bell housing (or transmission case, if that's what it is). The casting should be pre-heated to about 1500 degrees and the rod to be used is formulated for cast iron.
My guess is the original welding was done on the tractor and no pre-heat.

More info:
Guidelines for Welding Cast Iron

The Deere 448 backhoes use two plates mounted to the transmission housing and ROPs mounts. Once the 3PH draft links are removed, the 'hoe is lifted with the rockshaft lift links, two pins (each about 1.5" in diameter) are installed through the 'hoe frame and tractor mounted plates. The lower 'hoe frame sets in two slots in the tractor mounted plates. After all that, the lift links are lowered and the backhoe hydraulic hoses are plugged into the tractor's hydraulics.
It's a pretty robust and the stresses seem to be well distributed.
The manual doesn't specify it, but the illustrations indicate the stabilizers are to stabilize, not lift the tractor. I've only used my backhoe once, and that was just to try it out (I didn't buy the tractor for the backhoe...backhoe was just part of the deal) and all four tires were on the ground.

As far as the DK45 (topic of this thread), it's entirely possible the backhoe usage had nothing to do with the casting failure. Castings tend to have other flaws common to the casting process...and these flaws can (and have) lead to cracks.