backhoe, trencher, renting, buying...

[jaybrad]

Watching someone who knows their stuff and has lot of experience is a thing of beauty.

I got our tractor w/ BH last summer and spent a lot of time "practicing", although at the time I thought I would be "working." I am looking forward to another summer of "practice" once the yard dries out.

Last fall there was some construction going on near our office, and I spent a lot of time just watching the guy do the excavator work. It was an amazing site. Each action was smooth and efficient, and when he was done, it looked like the area had been leveled by hand.

Humbling, and inspiring.

 

[Wis Bang]

Those big excavators, at least the CATS have a valve to reduce the hydraulic pressure to slow things down. That was the first thing the 'old hands' would check and turn up to the max since us shop guys & trailer jockeys would use it when we serviced and loaded up to bring them out to the job.

The only time a good operator is jerkey will be on a machine he's not familiar with, or one he hates to run...

 

[Brad_Blazer]

This guy seems to have some good advice:
YouTube - How to Operate a Backhoe : How to Operate the Back Boom on a Backhoe

 

[Freds]

Interesting. he takes long, shallow cuts out until he gets down to grade, then he's already got a trench the length of his hoe's reach dug. This will give me another method to practice. I was going to dig a hole down to my grade, then use my boom's float with the bucket in the flat position and bring the dipper stick back towards me, letting the bucket fill up in a shorter distance, but hopefully maintaining the desired grade. His method leaves you more trench to eyeball to see how your grade is going. Then you can adjust it on the next pass. I'll have to see which method works the best for me in the least amount of time.

Thanks for the vid.

 

[Wis Bang]

Same idea, he still uses the boom and dipper while the bucket cutting edge stays at the same relative angle as he pulls it along the trench...

 

[BXpanded]

The key to operating a backhoe properly is entirely in the boom control. TLBs have only one hyd pump. If 2 or more valves are open at the same time, the fluid goes to the cylinder with the least resistance. Example, try this: Raise the boom, extend the dipper and swing the hoe all the way to one side. Start the swing back toward the other side. Without letting off the swing, push the lever to lower the boom. The swing will stop as the boom falls. Stop dropping the boom and the swing will resume. Feather the boom down and the swing will move slowly as the boom drops slowly. This by the way, is how an experienced operator can always hit the ditch smoothly and quickly as he swings back from dumping the bucket.

Cutting grade takes some practice. Extend the dipper, drop the bucket to the ground. Pull the dipper in full speed. (The bucket will immediately head for China and the back of the machine toward the sky) Now, at the same time, lift the boom slightly. The rising boom allows the bucket to slide along the ground with little penetration and no lift of the machine. The depth of the cut is controlled by how hard the boom resists the lifting action as the dipper is pulled back toward the machine. If the boom is not allowed to rise, the back of the machine will be lifted. If the boom is raised too much, no digging happens. Finding that point where the bucket comes back to the machine horizontally is the key. It changes as the dipper moves so there is no set point. Like I said, takes practice.

As the dipper is pulling in and the boom is rising, the bucket can be curled or uncurled as necessary to keep the teeth in a cutting position. This requires feathering of 3 valves simultaneously. (Kind'a like juggling a trio of squirrells but with practice it gets easy.) The bucket position is not as critical as it might seem. The old cable operated machines had rigid, fixed, buckets, no curl at all, yet dug very well.

The BH operates much like your arm and hand. Simulate an even horizontal cut with your arm and you can see the various actions required by the machine. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, after enough practice you can actually feel things with the machine. The "feel" is actually the result of the shifting and flexing of the machine components as the resistance to the bucket changes but is very real and can be far more sensitive than you would imagine.

When a cut is finished use the BH to move the machine forward. Put the bucket in the ditch, raise the outriggers just off the ground and raise the front bucket. Push the machine forward with the coordinated use of the extending dipper and the lowering boom. Set the outriggers, drop the FEL bucket and dig.

 

[Freds]

Thanks for the post, BX.
I was playing around on it yesterday for an hour. I couldn't get anything to happen with the scraping method. It needed more technique than what I have right now and I ended up pulling the machine along or raising the boom too much and not doing much of anything.
I went to the dig a hole and take it from there method. Much easier. I actually got an 8' trench in little time with a "fairly" level bottom. No idea on the levelness of my trench, but it looked good from the seat (lol). As I was calling it a day, I realized another thing I can do to make this work even better and will practice that today.
No luck pushing myself along though... I can pull myself, but pushing myself digs the bucket into the bottom of the trench and messes up my trench, putting a divot in it. I had the bucket in an uncurled position. Don't tell the OSHA police, but I'm thinking of a 2 x 4 on the treddle. I can bump myself along without stalling the tractor. Or maybe set a weight on the safety switch if that works, something I would have to remove to put the seat back down.

And yes, I noticed last weekend that increasing one movement decreases another when opening two or three valves. Typically the swing, because I have the swing movement dampered down with the control.

Good post, BX.

 

[BXpanded]

Thanks for the post, BX.
I was playing around on it yesterday for an hour. I couldn't get anything to happen with the scraping method. It needed more technique than what I have right now and I ended up pulling the machine along or raising the boom too much and not doing much of anything.
No luck pushing myself along though... I can pull myself, but pushing myself digs the bucket into the bottom of the trench and messes up my trench, putting a divot in it. I had the bucket in an uncurled position.

When you are digging, make sure the FEL bucket has all the weight from the front of the tractor. The leverage helps keep the rear of the tractor from lifting.

When pushing yourself along, push just far enough that you can reach back over the divot and smooth it as you make the next cut. The small BHs have a limited reach so you may not be able to move very far at a time. As you push yourself along, keep in mind you can steer the front of the tractor by the direction of the front wheels.

Another little tip: To dig a straight ditch, mark the line with paint, lime, cement, whatever. Keep the BH swing pivot directly over the line and keep the machine level side-to-side with the outriggers. If you get off the line, use the bucket to lift the rear and set it over to the line. (The FEL bucket needs to be raised slightly to lift the rear.) Level front to rear doesn't matter.

Practice, Practice, Practice! You'll figure most of it out in the first 10,000 hours or so!

 

[Airic]

I just skimmed through so it may already have been mentioned. I have a float control on my upper boom (Left lever all the way foward). Took me 3 months till I realized I had it. This helps greatly in maintaining a flat surface at the bottom of the trench as it does not apply down pressure. As long as you keep the cutting edge of the bucket parallel with the trench is works very well. What others have said is great advise. I paint a line for the trench path and keep it centered with the tractor. For depth, I place a string line next to the trench with the slope I want and line the string up with a piece of tape placed on the foward boom on the backhoe. In little time you will be able to pick pockets with that thing.

 

[Freds]

Airic, doesn't the tractor interfere with the string? I asked that earlier. Or maybe is the string just a couple inches off the ground?

And the float was already mentioned..... I mentioned it (lol). Yes, it works great. That seems to be the easiest way to trench for me right now. I practiced a little more with it this afternoon and feel I'm ready to at least run my downspouts underground and bury the drain pipes so they run into a creek directly rather than water flowing on top of the ground. This area has a pretty good slope to it and I can eyeball my trench depth and it will still be running downhill. If I use the BH on the other area though, where the drain tile is going, I need a better way to judge depth than just looking at the top of my bucket sitting in the trench. I'd really like to know how you use that string.