Backhoe With Cab?

[HenRut]

I'm a tractor newbie beginning my research for a 50hp class machine and I've got a basic question I know the knowledgeable greybeards on this great forum can quickly answer. Why do some dealers not recommend a backhoe with a cab tractor (assuming the BH is a dealer option for the machine)? Is it a matter of maneuverability or fit or comfort? My usage would probably be 10-25% BH but when I need it, there's no substitute. The machines I'm considering are Kubota L5740 HST Cab, Kioti DK55 Shuttle Cab or Mahindra 5035 HST (non cab). Finances may dictate me going cab-less, which I would probably regret next winter (I'm in New England) but I can't do without a BH. Any reason to be afraid of a BH behind a cab? Thanks in advance.

 

[grsthegreat]

nothing to do with stability or maneuverability. It has to do with the fact that with the cab, you have to climb off the backhoe seat and walk around, climb into the cab and move the tractor to the next part of the trench, climb back out and climb onto the BH, etc etc.

My dealer told me he wouldn't recommend it either. I needed the cab WAY more than the BH.

On larger commercial cab backhoes, the driver seat swivels so you can use the hoe. not so with the CT hoes (least none that i have seen).

On a personal note: for the times i need a hoe...i rent a mini excavator. will outperform any backhoe. I'm an electrician, do alot of underground work and the minis have outperformed every standard backhoe Ive ever rented. But to each their own. if you have a great need to own one..go for it.

But for me, when I'm in my toasty warm cab during an Idaho winter storm....ill think about all the guys with their hoes LOL:laughing: :laughing: :licking:

 

[HenRut]

Great info. Thanks. "Convenience" was the big one I missed, plus leg wear-n-tear. I can see how trenching with any tractor-mounted bh would be a serious drag. My needs run more towards popping rocks and stumping. Still, besides the misery of a howling cold mid-winter, I tend to forget the other miserable days throughout the four seasons where a cab would be nice. And I've got a few local mini-ex rental options and can put the extra 8-9K toward attachments.

On another note, I notice you have a Kioti DK SE series. Any comments on my chosen tractor choices?

 

[grsthegreat]

I test drove the Kublta 3240 , TYM T503 and a the Kioti DK45se that i bought. All were HST drives and cab units. I thought all were great tractors but had a few issues with some of them. I looked at the JD 4000 & 5000 series but they were priced out of the ballpark did not test drive these.

1. Kubota was a great tractor, slightly cheaper than the John deere, but everything was an extra. No rear ports ($1,300 extra), No rear wiper (140.00), No rear lights (125 ea, inst),No radio ($427.00). The lifting wasnt as great as the Kioti, but the HP were less.

2. John Deeres....the dealer i have been using for years wouldnt work with me. Insisted on selling at list price even though i was paying 100% cash

3. Tym T503 - Nice tractor, had a few faults. No radio (150.00), Only had 1 remote (extra $400.00), No wiper (390.00). cheaper than JD and Kioti. The biggest fault is the rear remote control lever was behind the driver, right side by rear window. Very poor design there. Also, 4 of the a/c-Heat ducts dont blow air???? i was told there for intake. the back windows fogged up while test driving it. But i did like the tractor.

4. The Kioti had everything as standard except for 2nd rear remote (400.00). Was cheaper that all the rest. Included R4 tires (these were extra at JD & Kubota $600.00).

these were just my findings. other people have other ideas.

As far as a BH on a tractor without a cab, you can reach over and move the tractor foreword NO PROB. Its the CAB that gets in the way. BTW, i spent 7 hours on a Kubota 4 ton mini excavator today......loved it. Dug lots of trenches and holes to bury roots. I wish i could justify buying one of these things. I rented it for $150.00 per day for a job, then brought it home to do my place. i got to use it for free:laughing: :licking:

ive never test driven the Mahindra 5035 HST ...dont know anything about them. The DK55 is a great machine, and i played in one. But i really want the HST for winter snow work. The HST isnt avail above the 50HP. I didnt try the 50HP Kubota series, as the dealership didnt have any that size with cabs. Mind you, you cant go wrong with a Kubota. Wish they were cheaper.

 

[charleyfarmall]

I have done quite a bit of work with a cab/ backhoe combination. It's a pain in the neck to get in and out of each time you need to move the unit. However, if the majority of your work is tractor work and you can't afford multiple machines then I would not hesitate. The cab is so much superior to the open platform that if you can afford it, do it.

It's true, renting a mini excavator is a great way to go. They are far superior to a backhoe. For me, though, the backhoe is a much more convenient because there is no scheduling, no pickup/ drop off, and I can dig at my leisure ( although that encourages procrastination....).

 

[Kyle241]

I believe this is just a personal preference. Most tractors with a BH on the back have a separate seat so often you are getting off and getting back on, what is the difference with a cab? You just have to open a door, not a big thing. The other option is if you do not have a cab is to play monkey and climb over your seat to get to the BH seat and hopefully you never catch a foot or anything and take a tumble.

The best 'fit' for BH work is Kubota's L45, nice open deck, seat easily swivels into position however there is no cab, just a sun shade. It is not inexpensive however with the dollars you are looking at for the other models you have listed, it's likely $4-5k more but it's also a workhorse. Other models with swivel seats albeit no cab are the B26, L39, M59 and the Deere 110 - all only have sun shades. There may be more but the others I know are full size BH's with cabs.

 

[art]

I believe this is just a personal preference. Most tractors with a BH on the back have a separate seat so often you are getting off and getting back on, what is the difference with a cab? You just have to open a door, not a big thing. The other option is if you do not have a cab is to play monkey and climb over your seat to get to the BH seat and hopefully you never catch a foot or anything and take a tumble.

The best 'fit' for BH work is Kubota's L45, nice open deck, seat easily swivels into position however there is no cab, just a sun shade. It is not inexpensive however with the dollars you are looking at for the other models you have listed, it's likely $4-5k more but it's also a workhorse. Other models with swivel seats albeit no cab are the B26, L39, M59 and the Deere 110 - all only have sun shades. There may be more but the others I know are full size BH's with cabs.

Kyle, the best part of the L-45 is the hydraulic system. It is big and flow rated at nearly double the average compact tractor so everything is like on commercial units. Many of the new hoe's on the kubotas also use a swivel seat like on the commercial backhoes.

The plus of kubotas design is the hoe closer to the tractor for less leverage against the chassis. It makes it real easy to load as the hoe's don't dig into the pavement when loading on trailers as well.

 

[tbearnla]

I can say this I own a B3300su with the BH77 backhoe and love it and it does have the swivel seat and getting from BH to tractor is easy just by stepping on one of the rear tires, there is no need to dismount. And if I am trenching all I have to do is lean over and pull up on the reverse HST petal.:thumbsup:

 

[Kyle241]

Kyle, the best part of the L-45 is the hydraulic system. It is big and flow rated at nearly double the average compact tractor so everything is like on commercial units. Many of the new hoe's on the kubotas also use a swivel seat like on the commercial backhoes.

The plus of kubotas design is the hoe closer to the tractor for less leverage against the chassis. It makes it real easy to load as the hoe's don't dig into the pavement when loading on trailers as well.

Art, definitely agree with the flow rates plus I believe the L45 and M59 have a dedicated pump for the BH (not sure about the B26). All the other new Kubota's I have looked at recently (L3800, L4400, MX4700 and MX5100) have a second seat with the BH, not the most comfortable if you're doing a long job. I have not seen a swivel on anything other than the B26, L39, L45 and M59.

I can say this I own a B3300su with the BH77 backhoe and love it and it does have the swivel seat and getting from BH to tractor is easy just by stepping on one of the rear tires, there is no need to dismount. And if I am trenching all I have to do is lean over and pull up on the reverse HST petal.:thumbsup:

You must have very long arms! I agree with the stepping on the tire, I do the same however if one is not able or is not well balanced, they could go for a tumble. I like the swivel seat as my B20 has it as well however nothing like the new commercial models which are sweet!

Don't wish to sidetrack what the OP is asking about though. I do not have concerns with a cab and backhoe and if you want both, get both. Don't let a dealer determine what you need/want as my dealer states the same about cab & BH, "we don't stock those as it's not recommended." I asked him who's recommendation and he said himself and I asked whether he has ever owned a BH and his answer was no. Personally I do not consider him an expert on that subject. I do agree though his customer base does not tend to want both, now that is a different reason altogether and makes sense why he does not stock them.

And for the OP, check this out, you are not alone: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/162422-backhoe-l4630-cab.html.

 

[HenRut]

Great responses, all. Thanks. I'm a straight newbie at this so even the diversions and sidebars are useful. I ran across another reason today why some tractors aren't recommended for a bh... they're too big! I happened upon a new Mahindra 8560 Cab on my local dealer's lot (brand new line for him--traded out New Holland) and was quite impressed with the fit and finish. Didn't drive it, so can't speak to the mechanics. Anyway, I mentioned a bh and he says the manufacturer didn't pair it with one because it was probably to big (tall). Any current bh would sit too far off the ground to have any decent dig depth. Makes sense to me, but then, what do I know. As most of my work would be tractor work and not bh, I loved the size and weight of the machine. Plus the price was equal to other machines I'm considering that had 40 to 50 hp less! Still, it's a Mahindra. I'm starting to understand that with those machines, if you get one where the assembly gods were shining on the factory that day, you have a killer machine equal to anything out there, for much less money. Plus, one of the best warranties out there and the dealer is only 5 miles from me. Seeing that machine doesn't help my decision. <g>

 

[Kyle241]

Mahindra 8560? That is a big tractor! Do you need that many HP? Besides the rocks and stumps you mention, what the tasks you will be performing with your tractor most often? Also remember the big tractor have some things to consider: weight, fuel consumption and height (is your garage/barn door tall enough?). I think if you have not already, you need to sit and test drive each model you are considering. Then speak to each dealer and determine which you feel most comfortable doing business with.

I have been considering Kubota and Kioti for a few months now, never considered Mahindra as there are no close dealers and I do not know enough about them. Kubota is my personal choice because that is what I have and what I am comfortable with however I don't like the local dealer whereas the Kioti dealer is a lot friendlier. What is a man to do??? :confused2:

Good luck in your search and let us know how you fair.

 

[jenkinsph]

In the 40 to 50 hp class I would suggest you consider the Deere110 with a Laurin cab. I have had mine for 6 years now and have been very satisfied with it. With three front and three rear hydraulic circuits, large hyd pump and the ehydro transmission it makes a great tractor and backhoe as well. Great to have a 110 with hvac.

Here are some pics.

 

[CompactTractorFan]

I would suggest you consider the Deere110 with a Laurin cab.

Better hurry up!!!

 

[HenRut]

Mahindra 8560? That is a big tractor! Do you need that many HP? Besides the rocks and stumps you mention, what the tasks you will be performing with your tractor most often? Also remember the big tractor have some things to consider: weight, fuel consumption and height (is your garage/barn door tall enough?). I think if you have not already, you need to sit and test drive each model you are considering. Then speak to each dealer and determine which you feel most comfortable doing business with.

I have been considering Kubota and Kioti for a few months now, never considered Mahindra as there are no close dealers and I do not know enough about them. Kubota is my personal choice because that is what I have and what I am comfortable with however I don't like the local dealer whereas the Kioti dealer is a lot friendlier. What is a man to do??? :confused2:

Good luck in your search and let us know how you fair.

Truth is, I need a tractor in both the 90hp and 50hp range <g>! I've got about 25 acres under hay, 6 acres under horse pasture, 3 acres under finished lawn and 50 acres under woods. Right now, I have no machine. As much as I'd love to take over the haying, finances forces me to leave that up to a friendly neighbor who's done the job for years with his 150hp Massey and other equipment. My tasks would be to clear stumps, rocks, light grade, snow blow and brush hog maintenance. My two local dealers (both <6 miles) are Kubota and Mahindra and both are good, reputable outfits, though the Mahindra line is new to that dealer. Kioti is 65 miles away and TYM is 26.

 

[boggen]

the the 555c new holland /ford TLB (tractor loader backhoe) i have. i wish it was a 3pt backhoe. so i could easily disconnect and put on rear implements. BUT. at moment, the farm needs enough things done. that having a single swivel seat with a cab. was much more beneficial for me. for next couple years.

it is a used, but a tuff old beast. once i get majority of the bigger projects done. then i will be trading in on most likely a new smaller size utility tractor in the 40 to 60 hp range. that will do majority of the every day tasks for upkeep and maintenance.

it is a construction model vs a ag/farm unit. but it sure is nice to have.

when i do end up getting a smaller ag/farm tractor, it will need a cab. and majority of the work will be like you, bush hog, finishing mower, maintaining rock drive way and some dirt lanes. pulling some tree roots out, pulling some cut down trees out of the woods to a better spot to be cut up and split. post hole digger for fence lines. small plow,disc,harrow or tiller for landscaping spots in the pastures and yards.

when i get to above point. ya i will be spoiled to have a swivel seat to run backhoe with an all in one cab setup. but the amount of backhoe work that will be needed. will be small. and if it means i need to get out of cab and walk around to bh seat. so be it. ya it will be less convenient. but being able to run rear attachments easier will be more benefit at that time.

about the only thing i will complain about though. is getting my rear unstuck! i have used that backhoe multi times to get unstuck. actually it was more like i was an octopus inside the cab, as i operated FEL, operated gas pedal, operated joysticks for BH. changed gears, etc...and if i had to use 2 seats and/or cab. it might mean i might actually be more stuck than what i thought i would get myself in to.

as far as renting vs having a BH. renting was not worth it for me. when i need it and i need it now. and by the time i call around to find a descent deal, then gas, plus wait time. the BH would of paid for itself and is paying for itself. if i already had good size expensive truck plus 2 or perhaps 3 axle trailer. it might be a different story. but i do not. and if you need shipping to and from your place those added costs add up rather quickly.

some folks save projects up for BH or rather renting an excavator. till they can not hold off any longer. and may rent it for 2 days to a week. ((longer ya have it, more discount you get normally)) if you can do this. it works out better.

but for me, i tend to get into projects. were the BH is needed once or twice throughout the project and until that thing gets done. project is on hold for good. and if i wait around to save up projects. i end up with (a) a big mess (b) wasting extra time cleaning up and getting things nice till that day comes around to renting an excavator or like.

 

[HenRut]

I also thought long and hard about a TLB in the 60-75hp range. It's probably the Swiss Army Knife of machines and I could get serious use out of one. But for my purposes with the need of dragging implements behind it thru the dirt (harrow, rear blade, box blade, mower, etc.) a permanent bh would be a non-starter. A rental mini-ex works well for tasks you can schedule, but we have horses with a couple over 30 years old and I suspect I'll have a near term need to dig a big hole for last rites in the not-to-distant future. And the horse will go on his/her own schedule. <g>

 

[art]

Art, definitely agree with the flow rates plus I believe the L45 and M59 have a dedicated pump for the BH (not sure about the B26). All the other new Kubota's I have looked at recently (L3800, L4400, MX4700 and MX5100) have a second seat with the BH, not the most comfortable if you're doing a long job. I have not seen a swivel on anything other than the B26, L39, L45 and M59.
.

Virtually all new Kubota TLBs are with a swivel seat!

 

[boggen]

you noted you don't have anything yet. and i am sure you have things pretty well nailed down on what you want. but something to think about.

if you need 2 size tractors.

what about getting the larger size hp tractor for the fields.

then perhaps a larger size skid steer? for general duty work and upkeep? you can find pretty much everything you can attach to FEL or 3 pt hitch. for skid steers.

for me, skid steers just did not have enough ground clearance. for the farm here. there good machines, but if it was me i would end up going with a utility tractor vs skid steers. but *shrugs* something to think about. i tend to see many farmers around here have a skid steer vs smaller size utility tractor for general duty purpose. granted some of the farmers around here also have 2 to 5 other sized tractors. but *shrugs*

==========
on another note. A/C in cab models can be rather expensive. they do make or you could DIY some see through plastic panels for FOPS (falling object protection system) / sun shade units. so you can have winter wind protection. and then take the stuff off during summer. so you can get some cooling wind on you.

ROPS = roll over protection system
FOPS = falling object. (like tree branches)
sun shades, might just be like a pull out awning on a pull behind camper/trailer or motor home. and no real framing to it.

for 555c of mine half windows were broken out. so i used plexi glass. but have seen folks use then film like plastic tarps and a small metal or wooden frame placed over a tractor.

if i can get myself out of the wind. coveralls and some layers of clothing is awesome. it is just being out on a tractor with no wind protection that chills ya down to the bones very quickly.

 

[HenRut]

Around here (central New England), it's more than the wind in winter that makes you long for a cab. Black flies, greenheads, skeeters, rain and humidity makes a cab with a/c in the summer/early fall worth the outlay. Then I have a true 4-season machine.

I did consider a skid-steer for another machine (actually, I preferred the CTL's for gentler ground damage and ease in muddy marsh), but new CTL's are pretty expensive and the attachments are pricier than tractors. Used would be an option but most have been used in the construction trade and have been beat to sh#t. I'm no mechanic and the last thing I'd need is a machine rusting in the field.

As for a "field" tractor, I have 25 acres under hay, and I'd feel foolish that with my one tractor I didn't buy one that would handle that chore. But you really can't find anything that size (80hp+) that will comfortably take a backhoe. I've read where some say you don't need a tractor that size for hay, but I have hills with 12-18 degree grades and hauling a mower or baler or hay wagon up those slopes is not for the faint of HP. My neighbor, who does our haying for us, recommends nothing less than 150hp! I know that's overkill, but he's longtime farmer with half a dozen tractors. Anything under 100 horses is a toy to him.

 

[boggen]

grandpa made a tow behind backhoe. other words. he basically built a modify trailer, bought a gas engine to run a hydraulic pump. for the BH. and then bout the frame and cylinder kit some place. along with a bucket. and made some out riggers for it. and you just tow it behind vehicle were you want it. un hook from vehicle. put down out riggers and away you go.

actually now that i think about it. i think you needed it hooked up to rear end of a vehicle or back end of a tractor. while out riggers were off on the back. so only 2 out riggers vs 4.

i don't remember if it swung left and right. but i want to say it did.

you just stood near the frame were levers were, and went to work with it.

i have came across some of them on tractorhouse.com and craigslist.org a couple times over the years.

granted not the best contraption in the world. but it was fairly light and quickly tow-able behind a car or truck. and got the job done.

i was actually about to go look at one, before i asked the boss lady what she wanted down on the farm. and after going over things. said forget it and get a TLB. ((needless to say night before, i went and picked up a new plug and a new ball for hitch on blazer, and install it all, just in case))

granted if you had BH 3pt hitch style it would be more versatile. but *shrugs*

==============
you can always get bushings for cat 3 or cat 2 3pt hitches. to accept cat 1 backhoes. the backhoe might look pretty small on rear end of a large tractor, but... if it works for ya, why not? *shrugs*

about only thing that might be an issue, is how big the larger size tractor is vs a smaller size hp tractor, and getting into small areas. example trenches between buildings and houses were there are other trees and things you need to be careful about flatting into a pancake.

i take that back. sub frame attachment. for backhoes. you might need to get a modified or special built sub frame. but if you went that route. you could pick and choose what ever backhoe you wanted to go with.