Coldwater
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the mount is the 3pt they do fine.but the backhoe need to be small 600lb or less.ym 155 and ym1300 there are a lot of them.so we do a lot of them loader and a lot loader backhoe
Backhoes for Yanmar
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the mount is the 3pt they do fine.but the backhoe need to be small 600lb or less.ym 155 and ym1300 there are a lot of them.so we do a lot of them loader and a lot loader backhoe
284 International
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Is that a 6 foot hoe, or smaller? I'm impressed the small tractors can handle 600 lbs on the three point. Have the tractors held up well to backhoe use?
OP
Scotty Dive
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Would like to better understand something about frame mounted and 3 pt backhoes. I read in a few places that backhoes mounted via the three point are really hard on the tractor. do they damage the lift arms?.... What kind of damage can they do?
California
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I was cautioned by a long time Yanmar importer to drive cautiously with my 3-point backhoe raised. Even though it was sold by Yanmar for my model tractor, it is at the limit of how much weight I can lift. That dealer said because the weight is so far back, there is a realistic chance that inertia could rip the back of the transmission off if I go lurching too fast over a series of nasty bumps. I've seen pictures where small Kubotas had the entire upper link mounting area torn out so I've taken that warning seriously.
284, was that you who bought a Yanmar that had the 3-point piston and arms assembly torn off of the top of the transmission then cobbled back on? Somebody on here put a lot of work into reattaching that assembly correctly.
Another Yanmar importer told me he would never sell or install a 3 point backhoe after he did one at the owner's insistence and it soon broke the tractor in half at the bellhousing. Apparently many brands of tractors have a tendency to split like that. My heavy loader has stiffeners that run back to the rear axle, which mitigates some of the split-in-half stress at the bellhousing. Photos. I think you need something like this. There are also (for YM240 and YM2000) special 3-point lower pins that screw into the transmission housing as usual but are much longer so the outer end of the pin is bolted to the stabilizer chain tab cast into the axle housing out by the wheel bearing. Photo showing the tab I'm talking about. With the outer end supported, those pins should withstand stress better than ordinary pins.
A 3-point backhoe will stress the tractor harder than likely any other use, so think what you are doing and don't go too large. You don't want to use up all the margin for overload that is built into Yanmars. Review the specifications in the dealer brochures I posted near the top of this thread. I wouldn't exceed those specs.
Summary: a 3 point backhoe is handy, but its not very powerful for digging and has a considerable risk of damaging the tractor. If you expect to use a backhoe a lot then get a frame mount version.
284, was that you who bought a Yanmar that had the 3-point piston and arms assembly torn off of the top of the transmission then cobbled back on? Somebody on here put a lot of work into reattaching that assembly correctly.
Another Yanmar importer told me he would never sell or install a 3 point backhoe after he did one at the owner's insistence and it soon broke the tractor in half at the bellhousing. Apparently many brands of tractors have a tendency to split like that. My heavy loader has stiffeners that run back to the rear axle, which mitigates some of the split-in-half stress at the bellhousing. Photos. I think you need something like this. There are also (for YM240 and YM2000) special 3-point lower pins that screw into the transmission housing as usual but are much longer so the outer end of the pin is bolted to the stabilizer chain tab cast into the axle housing out by the wheel bearing. Photo showing the tab I'm talking about. With the outer end supported, those pins should withstand stress better than ordinary pins.
A 3-point backhoe will stress the tractor harder than likely any other use, so think what you are doing and don't go too large. You don't want to use up all the margin for overload that is built into Yanmars. Review the specifications in the dealer brochures I posted near the top of this thread. I wouldn't exceed those specs.
Summary: a 3 point backhoe is handy, but its not very powerful for digging and has a considerable risk of damaging the tractor. If you expect to use a backhoe a lot then get a frame mount version.
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284 International
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It wasn't me, but I remember that thread. I'll see if I can find it.
jerrybob
Elite Member
Coldwater........your thoughts???? Do you make a frame mount back hoe??? Seems most folks....including Hoye.....don't recommend the 3 pt. back hoe?????
Have you ever had a tractor split in half??? A friend of mine has your FEL.....he really likes your product.
Have you ever had a tractor split in half??? A friend of mine has your FEL.....he really likes your product.
284 International
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Here's the thread California was talking about: Broken lift housing.
I can easily see how a backhoe on the back would break a tractor at the bellhousing. I've seen pictures, and I believe it would happen, especially on conversion/afterthought addition type machines where it's not really engineered specifically to the tractor at hand, but is more of a "will fit." While the YM2000/240 series, for instance, is extremely simple, stupendously reliable, and a marvelous piece of engineered simplicity, they're fairly light in comparison to other machines of similar horsepower and size: The YM2020D, for instance, is something like 2500 lbs, while the 2000D is barely 1900.
I would feel much more comfortable with a backhoe on a 2020, as a result, than on a 2000, just as my 186D is visibly beefier than my 1401D. Knowing the tendency of people to use things to their limit and then a bit beyond, the banging around a backhoe puts onto the tractor would be better absorbed with the biggest, heaviest and sturdiest tractor possible. I wouldn't fret much putting a 6 foot category I backhoe on my 6500lb IH464 that lifts something like 3000 lbs on the hitch, while the same hoe would rip my light 1401D apart, loader subframe or not.
I'm certain that having a good subframe that ties the ends of the tractor together and gives the structural members some separation helps significantly, but integrating the mount for the backhoe into the entire structure would be much better, for fairly light tractors. It's one thing to be operated carefully by a knowledgeable operator, and another to be sturdy enough to handle rental yard duty. I think a dedicated backhoe subframe is the responsible thing with light tractors running a 3 point backhoe; I'll be the first to admit I don't own one, though I've used them.
The sheer force involved in backhoes kind of frightens me, especially when the tractors weren't originally designed for those loads. Even when they are, the 3 point style just seems like it's asking for trouble unless the backhoe is undersized for the tractor, at least in comparison with a frame mounted version.
I split a Ford 1700 a couple weeks to replace the clutch, and even though it's a markedly bigger and heavier machine than the YM240, I was (and am) uneasy about how few bolts there are connecting the back half of the tractor to the front half. If I tried to design something like that, not only would it never work, but everyone would tell me I'm an idiot.
Watching a backhoe shove a tractor up, down, left and right through the bellhousing sends shivers down my spine. I keep wanting to purchase a backhoe, but keep coming back to being nervous about the durability and longevity of my tractor(s) with it mounted. I don't have much use for one anymore, it would be more of mild convenience and a toy, but if I ever get something, I'm going to mount it semi-permanently onto a full subframe and tie into the loader frame and everywhere else possible. Realistically though I'll sell a tractor or two and substitute a skid steer equipped with a backhoe.
I can easily see how a backhoe on the back would break a tractor at the bellhousing. I've seen pictures, and I believe it would happen, especially on conversion/afterthought addition type machines where it's not really engineered specifically to the tractor at hand, but is more of a "will fit." While the YM2000/240 series, for instance, is extremely simple, stupendously reliable, and a marvelous piece of engineered simplicity, they're fairly light in comparison to other machines of similar horsepower and size: The YM2020D, for instance, is something like 2500 lbs, while the 2000D is barely 1900.
I would feel much more comfortable with a backhoe on a 2020, as a result, than on a 2000, just as my 186D is visibly beefier than my 1401D. Knowing the tendency of people to use things to their limit and then a bit beyond, the banging around a backhoe puts onto the tractor would be better absorbed with the biggest, heaviest and sturdiest tractor possible. I wouldn't fret much putting a 6 foot category I backhoe on my 6500lb IH464 that lifts something like 3000 lbs on the hitch, while the same hoe would rip my light 1401D apart, loader subframe or not.
I'm certain that having a good subframe that ties the ends of the tractor together and gives the structural members some separation helps significantly, but integrating the mount for the backhoe into the entire structure would be much better, for fairly light tractors. It's one thing to be operated carefully by a knowledgeable operator, and another to be sturdy enough to handle rental yard duty. I think a dedicated backhoe subframe is the responsible thing with light tractors running a 3 point backhoe; I'll be the first to admit I don't own one, though I've used them.
The sheer force involved in backhoes kind of frightens me, especially when the tractors weren't originally designed for those loads. Even when they are, the 3 point style just seems like it's asking for trouble unless the backhoe is undersized for the tractor, at least in comparison with a frame mounted version.
I split a Ford 1700 a couple weeks to replace the clutch, and even though it's a markedly bigger and heavier machine than the YM240, I was (and am) uneasy about how few bolts there are connecting the back half of the tractor to the front half. If I tried to design something like that, not only would it never work, but everyone would tell me I'm an idiot.
Watching a backhoe shove a tractor up, down, left and right through the bellhousing sends shivers down my spine. I keep wanting to purchase a backhoe, but keep coming back to being nervous about the durability and longevity of my tractor(s) with it mounted. I don't have much use for one anymore, it would be more of mild convenience and a toy, but if I ever get something, I'm going to mount it semi-permanently onto a full subframe and tie into the loader frame and everywhere else possible. Realistically though I'll sell a tractor or two and substitute a skid steer equipped with a backhoe.
MJPetersen
Veteran Member
Or a mini-excavator. :thumbsup:
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284 International
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MJ, the little mini-excavators are quite appealing. I wish I could afford one, but they are kind of a one-trick pony for me, and it isn't a trick I really need. It's the old problem of specialization: The mini-ex is specialized at digging holes and trenches, but that's about all. Around here, for what one of them costs I can get a skid steer and backhoe, and have a more versatile package. Of course, I could just pocket the money and rent whatever is needed, but that is much less fun, and doesn't satisfy my urge to have instant gratification when I want to dig a hole.
I just want to clarify that I wasn't speaking badly of 4 point backhoes, or backhoes on tractors in general, or trying to position myself as an expert. I don't own a backhoe and never have, but I've used the 4 point versions on smallish tractors before. Even a light, tiny hoe is vastly better than a shovel, much like a 2wd tractor with a loader is much better than a wheelbarrow. It's my opinion that anything can be broken or mistreated. I also think that the 3 point backhoes have a much closer limit for abuse than other implements do.
I just want to clarify that I wasn't speaking badly of 4 point backhoes, or backhoes on tractors in general, or trying to position myself as an expert. I don't own a backhoe and never have, but I've used the 4 point versions on smallish tractors before. Even a light, tiny hoe is vastly better than a shovel, much like a 2wd tractor with a loader is much better than a wheelbarrow. It's my opinion that anything can be broken or mistreated. I also think that the 3 point backhoes have a much closer limit for abuse than other implements do.