Backup generator 101, a few questions

[HillStreet]

it depends on how close panel and gas are together. i have installed the above said system for around $4,000 in the past when the moons align and everything is in the proper place. the transfer switch work is a piece of cake with just piping the 2 panels together. Whole install can be done in less than 8 hours if conditions allow.

I installed a Generac 11kW when I built 4 years ago. From concrete pad to gas to electrician all there and good to go. Nice install, about $4000.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

not really. Wire size good thru a few hundred feet. Gas pipe size, at least for natural gas increases drastically.

Only if you over size the wire to begin with... I guess you could over size the gas line to begin with, too...but I do understand where you are going with this...

Personally, I prefer diesel powered gensets.

SR

 

[grsthegreat]

Only if you over size the wire to begin with... I guess you could over size the gas line to begin with, too...but I do understand where you are going with this...

Personally, I prefer diesel powered gensets.

SR

a 22 kw gen can use a #3 copper wire to feed a transfer switch, weather its 5 feet away or 150 ft away. Wire size doesn’t change, only length. The same generator 5 feet from gas meter can use 3/4” pipe, but 100 feet away would use 1-1/2” Pipe to feed it. Price for gas goes thru roof. Now, propane may or may not be different issue. Also way easier to route wires thru attic or crawl space than gas. And I can either take or leave diesel for backup power. For prime power I’d only use diesel.

 

[Rebeldad1]

For electric start, you need to have the battery on a battery tender. Even with the 4400 watt unit, I had a battery tender on it. Had to go out and do the starts by hand; whereas, the Isuzu generator and the Gentron panel are totally automatic. It'll run for 2 weeks, too.

Ralph

Ralph what model generator and what model panel do you have? sounds interesting.

 

[MGMAN45]

I'm no expert, but if you're open to the expense of purchasing a new propane powered generator, why not go a little further and get a fully automated backup system? When the power goes off, there's no need to plug stuff in, remember to turn stuff off, or anything. She would just always have power.

I love having our Generac backup generator. Of course, we haven't had a significant power outage since it was installed. It doesn't take a huge generator to power the whole house. You just have to use a little common sense and not turn on every high power usage appliance at once when the generator is running.

I run a 45KW Kohler with ATS here.Powered by a 6 cyl ford engine.

 

[shooterdon]

After reading this thread, and currently hobbled up with a badly twisted ankle, and cold, and snow on the ground, I got a quote on a 13kw unit two days ago. $7500 for the generator plus install, but he was willing to knock off $1000 if I had the gas line installed. I get the gas line run from the LP tank ($400 having my LP supplier do it). So finial price is just under $7000.

These were the factors that pushed me to make the investment. I am 69, and plan to live here the rest of my life. I can still set up the portable unit but it gets harder and deep snow makes it worse. My sump pump runs every 3 minutes during the spring...I must have power restored within a couple of hours or face flooding. We cannot travel far about 3 months while the sump is active. Very confident in the dealer and he services what he sells. Local guy about 35 minutes away and he has a plow truck to get in if needed. (I live in the middle of the state forest). Currently Generac is offering a 10 year warranty. I was OK with being tied to the house but my fiancé is less inclined to be obligated to stay close by for three months. There is a guy we can use to "caretake" if we are away, but he is a year older than I am and not a good long term option.

I need/want to justify major expenditures. Many here are wired differently. I take a long range view of things. $7000 works out to $500/year over the 15 years we hope to be able to live here. If we have to move before then, it will be due to very poor health or death, and the money will not mean much anyway. Lastly, we have no other option that addressed our need for reliable power for the long term.

If I was younger, lived in a more moderate climate and/or expected to move in a few years, investing $7000 would not make as much sense. Portable generators have served me well for over 20 years. Getting old sucks. It sucks more if you have not planned for it.

 

[jwstewar]

I purchased my 16KW Generac generator for $4247 shipped to my door. The 13kw would have been $3600 from a place call AP Electric. That included a 10 year warranty on the generator. I then paid $1400 to have the generator wired in and $200 for the propane company to T and extend my current propane line. It has been online now for about 10 days.

 

[cdaigle430]

. electric is way cheaper and easier to route than gas. Also gas pipe needs to increase in size the further its run.

Not true, the only time it needs to be increased in size is if you want to add more natural gas appliances.

I have a new furnace and Natural gas 16kw generator and I am sized at 7 in WC (7 inch water columns) Its the amount of pressure required to your house that dictates the line size not the distance. I can add one more appliance like a NG kitchen stove and still be ok. This is a completely new system that I had installed 3 years ago.

For me because I am using NG to heat my home the cost to install it to my home was free, the cost to run it to the generator was about 360 using black iron pipe.

 

[cdaigle430]

I purchased my 16KW Generac generator for $4247 shipped to my door. The 13kw would have been $3600 from a place call AP Electric. That included a 10 year warranty on the generator. I then paid $1400 to have the generator wired in and $200 for the propane company to T and extend my current propane line. It has been online now for about 10 days.

I paid just about the same but 16kw Generac is natural gas with 10 year warranty. I also originally was going to get the 13kw but they only wanted 360 dollars more for the 16KW so why not. So convenient...when I am in Brazil in the winter i dont have to worry about frozen pipes or Hot Tub. Automatic on and automatic off even if its 30 below zero.

 

[grsthegreat]

Not true, the only time it needs to be increased in size is if you want to add more natural gas appliances.

I have a new furnace and Natural gas 16kw generator and I am sized at 7 in WC (7 inch water columns) Its the amount of pressure required to your house that dictates the line size not the distance. I can add one more appliance like a NG kitchen stove and still be ok. This is a completely new system that I had installed 3 years ago.

For me because I am using NG to heat my home the cost to install it to my home was free, the cost to run it to the generator was about 360 using black iron pipe.

.. nope and nope. i have to have my installs (100's of them) approved by the state gas inspector. for natural gas, most maters are 250 CFM and they cant provide enough output to power the house plus a gas guzzling backup generator. therefore i have to increase the meter size. I have licensed gas installer pull permit and do install. they are not allowed to just hook up to existing gas piping unless that area where they hook up is sized large enough to meet total pipe run which is provided on a chart. its amazing how fast gas pipe size increase due to length of run. Nearly all of the natural gas installs ive done require a new, separate pipe run to the meter. Thats just how it usually works out. Not only do i have to show the inspector the required flow measurement at generator, that level has to stay at that point with all the other appliances running. Thats hard to do without a separate run. Ive been dinged too many time in the past to mess with it. I have also been called out to houses during power outages where the generator is hunting (reving up and down) during an actual power outage. never did it during exercise. The unit is being starved of gas.