Bailing hay with a compact

rambler · Mar 30, 2005

A centerline baler is typically designed for high through-put, and a compact of any size is not going to cut it for the resons mentioned.

A typical older square baler uses 15 hp or so. However the flywheel 'stores' 50 hp, and can back-feed into your tractor. This puts great stress on the tractor, and many compacts are not built sturdy enough to handle the load - pto breakage.

A square baler can weight 2000 lbs or more. A light compact tractor, often with a loader on it, has a very light rear end. Between the rocking of the plunger, the offset nature of a baler, and hills, a light compact tractor will likely jacknife on you, making a scary situation. You see, most square balers end up with negative tongue weight when bales (or a thrower???) are on the back of it, lifing _up_ on the rear of your tractor. Hit the braks on a downslope, one wheel on slippery dry hay windrow, and all sorts of things happen to mess up your shorts....

Now, a 50 hp compact is pretty big, likely one can handle the typical older square baler. That's cool.

--->Paul

slowzuki · Mar 31, 2005

The hesston centrelines run on only 30 pto hp or something like that.

I believe our JD 336 weighs 3000 lb or so.

The flywheel eases the surges in power on the tractor and yes and can backfeed and or be rough on the pto.

I have never, ever seen negative tongue weigh on a baler. Ours has about 1000 lb or so if tongue weight and have never seen it lift on the pin.

kensfarm · Mar 31, 2005

"Any suggestions on a tractor that can still clean corrals with a loader, but enough power to bale 15000 bales a year?"

Is your target sales.. squares for horse owners?

Size the tractor to the the equipment you're planning to run now AND the equipment upgrades you plan to run in the future.

I've seen the farmers doing it for a living.. they take off cutting or baling like a bat out of .....(you know). W/ that much ground to cover.. a cut just won't cut it.. but they can help w/ raking or towing wagons. There def. will be enough work for 2 tractors & several helpers.

slowzuki · Mar 31, 2005

12000 bales is a pile of small squares. If doing it commercially one would want to size for it from the start. Here that would mean big rake or double hitching smaller rakes, a high capacity baler inline or a JD 346 or NH equivalent. A basket or thrower and wagon or bale wagon or accumulator and grapple setup. And barns to store it in.

I would pick a utility tractor w cab at the 60-70 hp mark, 2wd no loader and match an open station 50 hp or so utility with 4wd and loader if doing grapple route.

12000 bales with one tractor is not a fun summer.

If I was starting big I would start with open front pole barns with a 12 bale accumulator and grapple with 4 or 5 hay racks. I would buy a skidsteer to keep at the barn for unloading with a grapple if I didn't have enough racks. The 2wd cab tractor would do all the mowing, baling, tedding raking etc with appropriate sized implements. The 4wd open tractor would have the 2nd grapple and load the wagons and shuttle them to the barn.

I like the grapple idea as many customers here use flatbed trailers which can be grapple loaded. This would give an advantage as many are middle aged horse women who can't always round up a loading crew.

Bob_Young · Mar 31, 2005

Baled for years (80's and early 90's) using, first, an old McCormick 45 baler (Ugh!) and, more recently, a small Ford square baler (can't remember the model) using a Ford 2000 (gas, 3 cylinder, 3500# and about 32HP). Always dropped the bales on the ground. The land was hilly. Don't think we ever did more than about 25 acres in a season.

The Ford baler ran like a dream behind the 2000. Once when the 2000 had tire problems, we pulled the baler behind a JD40 (Johnnypopper, about 20HP and 2500#). It did the job but it looked like the baler was running the tractor. Just took it slow is all. Never bothered pulling the baler with the Ford 4000 as the 2000 did it so well.

Still have the baler. Looking forward to running it with the L4300 when I get the hayfields working again.

If you get into big bales, high volume, pulling wagons behind the baler and bale kickers, you'll need something quite substantial. If you keep it simple and don't push things hard, a midsize to large CUT will get you by; but I think, even then, 3000# tractor weight is about the lower limit for baling.

FWIW
Bob

Robert_in_NY · Mar 31, 2005

If running a grapple you will want a tractor to shuttle wagons. It would be a pain to constantly have to hook and unhook. If that is how you had to do it then you could get by with only two racks but you would fall behind on stacking real quick with only two tractors.

Ideally we would all just have 10 tractors with three of them having loaders so we always have enough. But since we don't we have to make due. I keep debating about adding a fifth kicker rack or just buying a stack wagon and sell off the rest of my kicker equipment. Money wise tells me to run what I have for a couple years but I am going to have to hire some help to unload this year and it is hard to find people to do that type of work in this area. Of course we do have a lot of Mexicans looking for work.

Robert_in_NY · Mar 31, 2005

( Size the tractor to the the equipment you're planning to run now AND the equipment upgrades you plan to run in the future. )

This is the best advice anyone can receive when starting a haying operation. There is a lot of money tied up in equipment and it does no good if your equipment is too small to allow you to expand when the chance presents itself. The other thing is to always keep your eye out for equipment. There are a lot of deals out there but they are not always in the spring when you need them. There are a lot of great deals in the fall and winter that will allow a person to save a lot of money on something they will need eventually and it is better to buy when the opportunity presents itself then to try and buy when something happens and you need it right away.

Robert_in_NY · Mar 31, 2005

( If you get into big bales, high volume, pulling wagons behind the baler and bale kickers, you'll need something quite substantial. If you keep it simple and don't push things hard, a midsize to large CUT will get you by; but I think, even then, 3000# tractor weight is about the lower limit for baling.
)

I would raise the lower limit for baling with a kicker to at least 5000 pounds on flat ground and 8000 for hilly ground. I have ran my TN on a kicker baler in hilly ground and it weighs around 6000 pounds and there is so little room for error that I was not comfortable at all. You are more worried about looseing(sp /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif) control of your rig while going down hill then you are keeping an eye on the baler. I am glad I do not have to bale those hills this year.

slowzuki · Mar 31, 2005

I was thinking load all the racks then shuttle them. You wouldn't need to unhook at the barn as the skidsteer would be there to unload. If a skid steer q/a grapple was used you could take it to the barn on the tractor first rack and pop it on the skidsteer for the 4 or 5 racks then take it back with the last rack.

I won't be in that position anytime soon, we are teaming up with a neighbour to hay again this year. Unfortunately we are losing the IH 584 (52 pto, 4wd, cab, loader) that was our main baling tractor last year. This year is their 2wd Case / IH 585 open (52 pto hp) and the new to us Kubota L5030 HSTC.

Combined we will only be at 6000 bales or so this year. I would like to get back up to 10,000 over the next 5 year. Our problem is barns. No low labour storage available.

( If running a grapple you will want a tractor to shuttle wagons. It would be a pain to constantly have to hook and unhook. If that is how you had to do it then you could get by with only two racks but you would fall behind on stacking real quick with only two tractors.
)

green4710 · Mar 31, 2005

Wow, thanks for all the information all. Im in the process of finding another tractor to bale hay with. Im looking at older john deeres (4430), IH (1086), etc. I cant imagine bailing 15000 bales on my 4710. I dont know if we'd survive. However, in doing small squares, I plan on buying a balewagon to stack with. That and a hay elevator to put a few in the barn, but mostly we will sell the rest. You guys are a wealth of information, this board is a huge help! Thanks!