bang bang you're dead

[Taylortractornut]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

I was brought up to respect every one, but at the same time not to take crap off of anybody. Ive been picked on and such but usually shrugged it off. Later in midle school the preppy kids had alot of fun doing a monkey pile then the wedgy. Id heard that i was inline for one. so i thought about it then my mecanical side kicked in, the next few days aI kept a good pair of my slipjoint pliers in my pocket and sure enough i got monkey piled by four preps. The one on top of me had hs hand near my head so as soon as i got my pliers i grabbed his pinky and appled as much pressure as i could. Itold him to callit off he wiggled out and the next thing i saw was the crotch of anothers pants near me so i applied the pliers there and then his squalling let them know i was gonna hurt some more folks if i go out. from then on i wasnt messed with. Then in HS we mixed 3 schools together then we had to re learn them. Id ask them not to bother another student if there was alot of bullying. There was one bully we had from Florida that was called Moose, moose had a fetish about kicking folks book bacgs that were in the hall ways at break. I got mine kicked around a few times it didnt bother me but i carried 2 bags one was for books and the other had bars of aluminum magnesium and varios materials for metal shop that Id bring home to work on at night. one day moose was wearing his sandals and i saw him kicking bags down the hall. I thought a minute and set my metal shop bag to the inside of the isle then made about 2 steps back he had a good run and go and broke 3 toes. Thats the last time i got bullied there.
I do agree alot of teachers dont want to get involved, and lot of one group can cause trouble. Ive noticed though that the bullies in highschools parents usually acted the same way their kids do. Im like Bird I always carried a knife since i was 12 and never thought to use it against another human.

 

[Tractors4u]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If your kids don't go play organized sports or other organized activities they don't develop social skills. Take a look at our unused parks. We could use more participation in sports, organized by the school or not.
)</font>

That type of philosophy magnified is what can cause some of the problems. "Your not a ball player, what's wrong with you?"

There are many kids out there that develop nicely without organized sports and some that need it to bring them out of their shell. Have you ever seen "Death of a Salesman" ? Remember Biff? My brother in law was Biff. His mom and coach built him up so about his baseball pitching that he didn't know what to do when he didn't get a scholarship. When we would go to his games I was ready to wring some parental neck due to the name calling and screaming of some of the parents on BOTH sides. Sports are great, sports are fun, but some of these parents need to take a valium and let the kids have fun and let it be just a game. And no I am not one of these parents that think you shouldn't keep score, I'm all for winning but let's keep things in perspective.

 

[F350Lawman]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

<font color="blue"> ( If your kids don't go play organized sports or other organized activities they don't develop social skills. Take a look at our unused parks. We could use more participation in sports, organized by the school or not.
) </font>


That type of philosophy magnified is what can cause some of the problems. "Your not a ball player, what's wrong with you?"

Since you took the time to cut and paste what I wrote and accuse me of being an example of the problem why don't you take the time to READ it closely first?? I said "organized sports or other organized activities ". Perhaps I should have inserted "involved in" ahead of "other activities" but I thought most people understood it as it was. Apparently not.

No, kids don't go out and play sports/games/manhunt/tag/whatever,enough on their own. It may be that the streets aren't as safe or that they are in front of the TV, computer or playing video games but there not outside as much. Streets and parks are no longer full of kids interracting on there own, they need organized activities be they sports or simply OTHER ACTIVITIES. The need to achieve and yes, fail at things while being involved with others. I think this is the real thing many kids are missing out on when the sit at home and play Playstation 2 for hours and days on end. Socially they are NOT developing.

My kids play sports, take lessons in several sports,ride horses are involved in scouting, have neen in 4H, clubs, jr. volunteer ambulance services,etc, this is what I am talking about.

I agree about parents and coaches being too hyped up and competitive. I am as competitive as they come but that's my life, when it comes to the kids as long as they try their best I could care less what the score or outcome of the game is.

 

[Joe1]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

Chet: I'm glad your schood does not tolerate that kind of behaviour. You have all my respect for doing a difficult and sometimes thankless job.

For about 5 months, I drove a school bus. First a 78 passenger then a 90 passenger. Although the students were supposed to be under the same rules as at school, THEY MUST NOT HAVE KNOWN THAT. Many of the kids were a real pleasure to deal with (middle school in this case), but many of them were out of control. They did not obey the rules on the bus, cut up and wrote obscenities on the seats, used profanity, hung out of the windows, threw food, ate and drank on the bus, and were just obnoxious. They had no respect for each other and none for themselves. When caught doing someting against the safety rules on the bus, they would at first deny it then try to blame one of their friends. The males treated the females like trash and some of the females as well spoke a language the clergy didn't know.

I finally had enough and quit. The FIRST JOB I've ever quit, and I'm 58 and retired from federal law enforcement (13 years in management). I also had 3 years in the service, including a tour in Viet Nam, and I never had trouble sleeping at night and never had to think of how I was going to deal with problem people the next day like I did with these "children". It was obvious who were the bullies and the victims. Vitimization may have been prevented in school, but not on the busses. When I tried to do something, the school vice-principal thought I was too strict.

All my efforts at reaching some of these kids failed. I tried being nice, tried to appeal to their natural leaership, tried being strict. They just don't care. I believe 98% of this comes from home. Through in the raging hormones and the big man on campus syndrome and it's not pretty.

When it got to the point that I spent more time watching them than the road, and when I wanted to bounce a few of them off the side of the bus, I got out.

I don't blame the teachers, their hands are as tied as were mine.

Driving a 25 year old 3 axel manual shift bus with a crash box 5 speed non synchro transmission was easy. Dealing with the wrotten kids was impossible.

I felt bad for the decent children on the bus, but I didn't need a heart attack or a bus accident.

Joe

 

[Bird]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( For about 5 months, I drove a school bus. First a 78 passenger then a 90 passenger )</font>

Those must have been big busses. I drove a school bus one year (72 passenger); worked nights in the Post Office, got off there and drove the morning run, went home to sleep, then got up and drove the afternoon run the first half of the school year. But on another route, a teacher was driving in the morning and the guy who drove that route in the afternoon needed more of a job, so I swapped with him and only drove the afternoon run the second half of the school year. We had all 12 grades on the bus so had kids from 6 to 17 (had to pick up and drop off the kids first at the "grade school", then the "high school".

Supposedly the only "discipline" a driver was allowed to take was to report any problems to the principal. And since I had graduated from that school only a couple of years earlier, I knew, as did everyone else, that NO disciplinary action would ever be taken by that principal. So, on the first route, I put two brothers off the bus one afternoon about a mile from their house; told them they could walk the rest of the way home, since they couldn't behave. They apologized the next morning (I learned a few days later from their father that he had questioned them about why they hadn't arrived home on the bus that day and threatened them with more severe corrective measures if it happened again). /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The driver I swapped with also had the rowdiest bunch of kids and they had literally been tearing the bus up. So that route was a little tougher at first, but not for long. I put a boy off one afternoon, but also told him that I was not going to report the incident to the principal, but that he would have to do so if he ever wanted to ride the bus again, because he was not getting back on the bus until the principal told me to let him on. Now that principal was not only not going to take any disciplinary action with a student, but also was not going to take any disciplinary action with an employee. So the next afternoon, the boy came out of the school with the principal, they came to the bus door, and the principal said to me, "The boy tells me he got in trouble yesterday." (I have no idea what the kid had told the principal). I replied, "Yes, sir." The principal asked, "Is it OK if he rides the bus?" I replied, "Yes, if he behaves himself." The principal turned to the boy and said, "Mr. Senter drives the bus and if you want to ride, you have to satisfy him" and turned and walked off. All the other kids were already on the bus and heard the entire exchange; no more problems for a long time. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Driving a 25 year old 3 axel manual shift bus with a crash box 5 speed non synchro transmission was easy. )</font>

And no power steering, no air-conditioning, and barely enough heater to tell you had one /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, but at least mine weren't that old. It was the '60-'61 school year and I had a '52 International the first half of the year and a '57 International (newest bus in the fleet) the second half. And none of the busses had any outside mirrors except the one side view mirror on the left side. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif That usually was not a problem, but when I took a busload of kids to the State Fair in Dallas, even though I had no problems, it was not fun driving that '52 International in Dallas traffic with no mirror on the right side. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[farmerpsv]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

Cindi,
I havn't had a chance to read all the responses here (at work /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) so I hope I'm not being redundant. First, I applaud your involvement in your kids life. I think that is the key. The kids at columbine were making bombs in the garage and their parents didn't know about it. Okay, I'll grant that kids can get away with stuff, but that's a bit beyond. I think the line in the movie you quoted ("it's not what's in the backpack, but what's in the heart that matters") hit the nail on the head. The system that only addresses the outward manifestations of the heart and not the heart is just treating the symptoms and not the cause. That's why why your response encourages me. I think giving your son the opportunity to talk about what is going on because you love and care for him, is the beginning of the solution. To have to bear the humiliation that others may foist on him is terrible, to bear it alone is impossible...it will exact a toll. Most everyone has heard that the abused breed abusers. To provide a child (or anyone, for that matter) with a refuge where they are not alone and isolated, to share the weight of the burden will provide the opportunity for healing so the disease won't continue to spread. Chances are, these kids doing the bullying need that same medicine. Not that you don't hold them accountable for the act of bullying, but that alone will not solve the problem.
paul

 

[itsmecindi]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

Our neighborhood bully was John B. The only sport he was involved in was running down smaller kids and beating them senseless. Pantsing, wedgies, and rock throwing were also favorite pass times. Girl, boy, it didn't matter. He lived a block away, so his bullying was not seasonal but went on winter and summer alike.

My brother put up with him for six years before he moved on to middle school. John of course failed two grades and was held back so my sister Judy and I had to put up wiht him as well. That seems to be a common thread, bullies tend to repeat grades and as a result end up physically bigger than their classmates and even school mates.

John could have lived out his days picking on me, my sister Judy, and my brother, but when my baby sister Dianne, who was a full four years younger than the rest of us, started first grade and he set his sights on her, he screwed up in a major way. It was the third day of school her first year, when he burst through the doors at the end of the day and almost casually put his right arm out like a battering ram and shoved her face first into a mud puddle.

She was wearing a floral dress, white ankle socks and little black patent leather Mary Janes, and was clutching a picture she had drawn that day which was obviously ruined. She was a sickly, scrawny little thing so she barely made a respectable splash, but she was naturally devastated at this abuse and at the loss of her art work.

Judy went after Dianne and led her crying by the hand all the way home. I set out for the middle school to meet my brother. I told him what happened. We both agreed that we needed to do something, and we were both scared to death.

By the time we worked out what we were going to do, school was well over and most kids already home. We made a point of walking past John's house, something that we had long since stopped doing, walking two blocks out of the way on a regular basis merely to avoid his house. His dog came running out sounding the alarm like he always did when people walked past. It was almost like he was trained to let John know that there was 'fresh meat' out there.

Sure enough here he came. I glanced at my brother. This was the part where he was supposed to walk up to John and punch him right in the face and make him swear never to touch our baby sister again, but he didn't do that. He just kept walking, his eyes on the ground. I was so scared I was shaking, but I nudged him with my elbow. John was crossing his yard diagonally, following us down the street on a slant but still on his own property, and I'll never forget the way he looked, squinting in the sunlight, his blonde crewcut needing a trim and a crooked, menacing grin on his face, his yappy little dog walking alongside him barking at us.

We reached the extreme north east corner of John's property before he made his move. He struck like a snake, shoving my brother, who slammed into me just from the sheer force and both of our books scattered. My brother launched into this windmill type attack mode basically wearing himself out, while John stayed handily out of the way laughing. Then by some weird stroke of luck one of my brother's wild punches connected and suddenly John was bleeding at the mouth.

"Ohh....you're gonna DIE now." John said, wiping blood off his bottom lip. Yappy dog went nuts, and John's mother chose that moment to come out onto the porch and call him into the house, so the scene was one of basic chaos.

This was the moment that every bullied kid dreads, the moment of sheer horror that you just know is coming if you try to stand up for yourself. John's lips curled back into a snarl and he let out a bellow of rage and tackled my brother. Okay, now it was time to put up or shut up. I was supposed to be there for moral support, and maybe to call the coroner if things went too badly.

But fate smiled on us that day. There, at the base of the telephone pole in the corner of John's yard, sticking out of the weeds was an empty 16 oz glass long neck Dr Pepper bottle. At some point I reached down and picked it up. I don't remember doing it, all I remember was seeing the sun glinting off of it as I clutched it tightly and brought it down with everything I was worth. It arced through the air and came down on the crown of John's head, making a sickening 'thunk' sound when it connected.

Yappy dog ran off yelping and John's mother came stumbling off the porch as John slid off my brother holding his head and groaning. She started yelling and cursing and I got some idea of where John had learned his less than sociable behavior. My brother got to his feet and between the two of us we bombarded her with tales of abuse at the hands of her son, after all we had years to draw from, and topped it off with the sheer evil meaness that he had perpetrated on Dianne. A miraculous change happened. Despite a serious lump on his head and a bloody mouth, Mrs B. started wailing away on John and beat him all the way into the house yelling at him and telling him to leave us alone.

John didn't stop bullying. But he did stop bullying us and the next day at school he apologized stiffly to Dianne. Also after word got around that a skinny fifth grader had taken him out with a soda pop bottle he lost some of his 'bullet proof' image. I don't know whether it was the influence of his mother or the fact that when I was growing up, empty coke bottles were as common as coke cans are today and readily available on the side of the road to anyone who needed an equalizer in a pinch, but eventually he mellowed out and moved on to middle school and became part of the woodwork and no longer posed a threat to anybody. My only regret is that we didn't confront him sooner.

 

[dieselsmoke1]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

Been reading this thread a while, really struck a nerve.

I was among the "chosen ones" in school. A scrawny kid with curly hair, too spastic to walk and chew gum at the same time. Made me an easy target. Teams sports? HA! Right.

Unfortunately back in those days, a report to school officials only seemed to escalate the frequency and severity.

I can easily understand how Columbine and similar instances occur, as I mentally killed my persecutors countless thousands of times. Bought an old pump shotgun at 16 years old and sawed off the barrel specifically for that purpose. Just lucky the last thread holding me to sanity apparently did not break.

I think things have changed for the better in our schools regarding being aware of this type activity. I talked with my kids about this extensively when they were in school. I knew what I went through and worried for them. They would tell me of random instances, but the pattern abuse of the 60's didn't dominate the halls as before.

Please talk to your kids. Take the time to ask them what goes on at their school. Watch for changes in their mood and behavior. If your kid exhibits strong tendancies to be a "loner"and not get involved with anything that's avoidable, maybe there's a good reason.

BTW got a little revenge a while back. Will spare the details, however I enjoyed it immensely. Yea, I still hold a grudge, expect to take it to my grave with me. No doubt I'll be intimidated by someone at some point in time in the future, however it won't be these buttheads.

 

[mwechtal]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

Cindi,
My case was a little unusual. I had encounters with 2 kids smaller than me. They were however much feister than most kids. In one case one tried to start a fist fight, and I hit him up side the head with my steel lunchbox. (I do not believe in fighting fair when I'm attacked). The second time, it was two of them standing in a field and lobbing rocks at me. It was kind of funny actually. They weren't really coming anywhere near me. I picked up one of the rocks they threw, and casually lobbed it in their direction. It really was too far away, and I'm no pitcher either. Well this time the rock hit tie other one up side the head, and he dropped like he'd been shot in the head. I ran home fairly convinced that I'd killed him. His mother made a point of coming over and telling my mother (who thought I was acting funny) that "boys will be boys". Funny thing is, today he's a nice guy, and at our reunion we talked quite a bit and got along just fine.

I think the whole problem is parents being too permissive, and laws that keep schools from punishing the students. We used to have a work friend. She was constantly complaining about how it was impossible to get someone to baby sit. It turned out that she let her kids do whatever they wanted. They were never punished for anything in any way, and they turned out to be horrible little brats. I feel sorry for their classmates.

Mike

 

[Tractors4u]

Re: bang bang you\'re dead

I did read all of your post and did see the "organized ACTIVITIES" part. But I noticed that sports came before that. Why not just say organized activities? Like I said earlier, I have no problem with sports as long as it is kept in perspective. I keep hearing how sports builds charactor and I think for some it does build charactor, but the charactor it builds reflects the upbringing that the athlete has. Really when it comes right down to it maybe kids don't need an "organized" activity, but simply an activity to call their own. Whether it is organized sports, RC airplanes, riding a dirt bike or underwater basket weaving, they need something that drives them, something that keeps their interest long enough to keep them out of trouble.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, especially you F350Lawman.