Barn Wiring Question

[grsthegreat]

This is not your question, but I'll share any way, just in case it is of interest.

The wiring in my barn came with a flexible metal conduit. This offers protection for the wiring, but it should be less work than running plastic conduit. It is something like this:
Southwire 685823 1' 12/2 MC ALUM CABLE - Electrical Wires - Amazon.com

thats referred to MC cable. but according to the NEC, its not rated any more secure from physical damage than romex. (2014 code 330.12 Mc cable shall not be used where subject to physical damage) not sure why, but our inspectors dont consider it any more rough duty than romex. In Idaho, we are required to encase any romex wire from ground level to 8 foot above ground level in schedule 80 PVC pipe to prevent damage in any unfinished building. that goes away if wall is plywooded or drywalled over up to 8' above ground level.

 

[grsthegreat]

I'm building a new 30x40 pole barn on the site of my old 1800's barn.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/426549-new-pole-barn-started.html

The barn is going to be divided into 2 spaces - 28x30 with 6 stalls for animals (3 on each side with an aisle in the middle) and 12x30 tractor storage / shop.

View attachment 670664

The old barn had 2 electric lines going out to it. One is a 220 volt line connected to a 30 amp breaker and the other is 110 connected to a 20 amp breaker and that line is connected to a light switch in the house. My plan is to use the 110 line on the switch for all of the exterior lights, so I can turn them on and off from the house. I am planning on splitting the 220 line to two 110's. One 110 will be for all the plugs in the barn and the other will be for all the interior lights which are 8 60 watt LED shop lights.

All of the wiring in the barn will be in plastic 3/4" conduit to keep it neat and keep it away from the animals and other critters. I am also installing a new 1" conduit under the concrete floor for future expansion of a new 50 amp 220 line for a welder, car lift or electric heater etc. Will install that extra circuit down the road when we run water from the house to the barn, a distance of 150 ft.

My question is what is the proper way to split the 220 to two 110's. Can I do it in a junction box or a sub-panel? Are sub-panels allowed by code? An acquaintance who is an electrician mentioned to me sub-panels are not allowed in my situation.

I will run whatever electrical plan I decide on by the town building inspector to get his approval before proceeding, but I want to have a good idea of what I am proposing to the inspector.

as previously stated, if the 220 doesnt have a ground and a neutral wire in addition to the 2 hot legs, you cannot form 2 separate 120 circuits. the 120 switch from house will work on the lights, but you wont be able to control lights from barn, only from house

 

[BoylermanCT]

The 220 circuit is 3 wires and a ground. Black (hot), Red (hot), White (Neutral) and Ground. When I disconnected the 220 at the house panel (required for the initial inspection) both the ground and the neutral were connected to the same grounding / neutral bar inside the panel.

I should mention that in the old barn, the 220 circuit fed a fuse panel with 8 fuses which powered the lights and plugs in the different rooms of the barn.

So am I out of luck on getting two 110 circuits out of the existing 220 wiring?

 

[BoylermanCT]

If you plan to do all the wiring yourself,it will be money well spent paying an electrician 1 hour to see present wiring and tell you what options you have. If you don't want to do that,you must describe present circuits in detail before anyone can tell you anything and you are still taking a gamble of mis-comunications.

My electrician acquaintance deer hunts on my land, so I should be hearing from him soon for the 20-21 season which starts Nov 1. We barter electrical work in exchange for hunting rights. So I will be using him as a resource and he may do the wiring for me. Just wanting options so when I talk to him I can bring them up.

 

[grsthegreat]

Not at all. Depending on the size of the wire, you can add a small subpanel in barn. If its a 10ga wire, max is a 30 amp panel. Get one that has separate ground and neutral busses. Subpanel cannot have neutral and grounds on same buss. If the panel in house is the main panel, than grounds and neutral go on same bus bar. If the subpanel will have more than 6 breakers, it will have to have a main breaker. Since you have a 4 wire run out to barn, you have every ability to have 120v circuits out there.

 

[s219]

The 220 circuit is 3 wires and a ground. Black (hot), Red (hot), White (Neutral) and Ground. When I disconnected the 220 at the house panel (required for the initial inspection) both the ground and the neutral were connected to the same grounding / neutral bar inside the panel.

I should mention that in the old barn, the 220 circuit fed a fuse panel with 8 fuses which powered the lights and plugs in the different rooms of the barn.

So am I out of luck on getting two 110 circuits out of the existing 220 wiring?

View attachment 670768

What you describe can be split into 110V circuits. Neutral should be bonded to ground in your main panel (as it was) but nowhere else. You will need ground rods at the barn.

That setup is pretty standard for feeding a subpanel in a secondary structure. You will need to wire it up to a standard circuit panel (whether you just need two circuits or not, you'll need a panel). That will have have two 110V hot bars down through the inside. Single breakers would alternate one of the 110V legs or the other. Dual breakers will use both legs for 220V.

If you don't think you'll need a lot of circuits, you can get by with a very small panel. That is what I installed at my pier and in my barn. I think they can handle a maximum of 6 breakers. At the pier I have a dual 30A 220V breaker for my boat lift and a single 15A 110V breaker for a receptacle. In my barn I just have 3-4 15A 110V breakers for lights and receptacles.

Do you know what gauge that main wire is that runs from the house to the barn?

 

[Birdhunter1]

You might have a problem grounding your split.

And, my two cents here. I built a new barn many years ago for livestock, hay and grain. some tools and harness. I purposely did not run 240 out there. I don't believe a welder belongs in a livestock barn. I am lucky enough to have a workshop with a slab and ventilation.

I agree, however I did run 240 out to mine and have a pigtail ready to wire in if needed to run a welder if I absolutely have to but I also can run an air compressor or some larger fans if I need to move air when its really hot and nasty. Five years later that pigtail is still in a cabinet if needed but I haven't had to wire it in yet.

 

[r porter]

my barn has 220v wired to each stall. there is nothing equal to an old heat pump fan when the heat index is 105. and yes the welder and air compressor are there.

i built a 30 x 30 barn once very similar to your design. the only difference was the tractor shed was on the stall side and the alley went all the way through.

i cussed it until the day i sold because the center ally was only 9 ft wide. the next barn i built has a 12 alley and is none to wide.

 

[TheMan419]

my barn has 220v wired to each stall. there is nothing equal to an old heat pump fan when the heat index is 105. and yes the welder and air compressor are there.

i built a 30 x 30 barn once very similar to your design. the only difference was the tractor shed was on the stall side and the alley went all the way through.

i cussed it until the day i sold because the center ally was only 9 ft wide. the next barn i built has a 12 alley and is none to wide.

Yes we have had our horses in may a barn with too narrow aisle. We built ours at 12 feet. there are a few days I wish it was 14 feet, but not many. 12 is a good aisle width. the 12x14 roll up door on the riding arena make it nice to get any equipment in there as needed.

 

[grsthegreat]

i built ours with 12 foot isles and full width doors......awesome.