Barns and shop layouts

[hwp]

I formed the trench and poured it as part of the apron. I had a local welding shop make the grates. They are just steel catwalk grating with angle irons welded to the sides. Mine are in 6 foot sections so they are easy to lift out when needed. The trench drains into a catch basin which has a drain pipe that gets rid of the water.

 

[Pks]

HWP,

Thank you for posting the photo. That grate drain is exactly what I had thought of for the centerline of my barn. I have been thinking about using this for the whole length, about 48 feet.

How did you form the concrete in the trench so that the grates were flush with the surface of the apron and yet supported by the concrete?

Peter

 

[hwp]

The trench was formed using 2x10s initially supported on steel posts along the inside edge of the 2x10s. I used a slope of about 0.5 inch per 10 feet of run on the bottom of the trough. My drain is about 45 feet long so the bottom of the blind end of the trough is about 2.25" higher than the bottom at the outlet end. One edge of the 2x10s was cut to the taper. Once the concrete was poured and under the 2x10s, the steel posts were removed and the concrete was trowled to fill the holes where the posts had been. We used a fairly stiff mix of concrete so that it wouldn't sag and come up into the trough.

The grates are supported by 1.5 x 1.5 x 3/16 steel angles on each side that sit on top of the apron so the grate is not exactly flush with the apron. If you really wanted to get fancy I suppose you could form a recessed lip along the edge of the trough to accomodate the thickness of the supporting angles.

It is currently trying to snow here so I don't know what the conditions will be like tomorrow but as soon as feasible I will take a close-up photo and then post it to show the details.

Our city transit maintenance building has a centre drain like this running the full length of the shop with bays on both sides. I was sitting on the transit commission at the time this facility was built and I asked the manager about the concept. He told me that he brought it with him from the winery where he had previously worked. It should work well in a barn.

 

[looch]

Dick, I finally stopped at that dealer (I waited until the place was closed - didn't want 5 salesmen after me). The snowblowers that they are selling are made by a company called Couture. I have been trying to find a web site or phone number or something on the web but I'm coming up empty. They make both reverse and standard mounted blowers (don't know if they make a front mount). They are not as unique-looking as your unit, however. They just look like a regular blower with the 3ph mounted on the other side. They do make smaller untis than Normand - the one I was looking at seemed to be about 7'.

This company makes a lot of other stuff too. Wasn't someone talking about one of <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.marchandag.com/list/view_image.cfm?image=1729885&dealerid=499>these</A> awhile ago?

If you want more info, let me know and I'll stop by during business hours.

 

[s1120]

I have to say the snow blower looks like a good concept for a tractor with a rear PTO. A lot less neck strain.

 

[hwp]

Pks

Attached is a close-up photo or my grate system. Note that the stringers run crosswise to distribute the load to the side angles. I have the angles sitting on the concrete and I haven't had any problems with the concrete chipping or anything else but if I was going to do it again I would probably set 2x2 angles along each edge of the trench and set them down so that the top of the angles was about 0.25" below the level of the apron. This would make the top of the grates flush with the apron. If I did this I would weld 6" pieces of 1/2" rebar to the inside of the lip angles at about 2 foot intervals and angled at 45 degrees. This would secure the lip angles to the concrete.

 

[rbargeron]

Thanks Paul - I was not aware of the Couture brand.

I posted a question in "attachments" in case anyone recognizes the one I have. Maybe we can continue this discussion over there.

 

[kevinro]

I have a question about where to put my compressor. In an ideal world, I would put it outside the shop so I don't have to listen to it. However, the engineer in me is concerned that my compressed air is sitting outside at high pressure. That means if it is cold, say 30 degrees, then when the air is used inside, and decompressed, it is going to get extremely cold. Thermo-dynamics isn't one of my strong suits, but it seems like it would be sub-zero going from a compressed 175 pounds to atmospheric pressure. Does anyone have experience with an outdoor compressor in cold weather?

Thanks
Kevin

 

[DocHeb]

One difficulty with a cold location is that the water that condenses in the tank will freeze, and will not be able to be drained out.

 

[Pks]

Your engineering hunch is correct. Without going back to my Thermo books, I can tell you from experience that when letting the air out of a tire (with 30 PSI), if the surrounding air is in the lower 40's F range, frost will appear on the outside of the air valve. Your air tools won't like it much either (much less your hands).

How about leaving the compressor inside, and putting a large foam box around it?

Peter S

 

[rbargeron]

My compressor is up in the attic of the barn - unheated area - works fine. The air is so dry in the winter that condesation isn't an issue. I just have to remember to drain it once or twice each summer.

 

[jimgerken]

A friend of mine just put something similar in his new workshop floor. He bought it at Menard's (like Home Depot). It is PVC I think. Looks good installed.

 

[Pks]

Jim, what was it that was put in, a drain?

 

[jimgerken]

yes, a floor drain for the water and melted slop from his car. The kit of stuff from Menards did not include a trap, so he added that by simply glueing shut the lower few slots of the outlet area. The outlet is formed to permit plumbing with PVC. He ran his outside to daylight about 10 feet outside the garage wall, and has plans to bury a 55 gallon drum full of rocks as a miny drainfield, next summer.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Most of the discussion on this thread has been centered around stick built barns/shops. I am contemplating a 30' x 40' workshop for piddling around with woodworking and some small welding/metal working projects. I can see some real advantages to metal buildings over wooden truss type shops (i.e. larger spans for unobstructed workspace.) I also suspect that plan-for-plan, a metal building would be cheaper to build. Any thoughts????

rc

 

[looch]

<font color=blue>Any thoughts????</font color=blue>

One small one: I don't believe a metal building will hold up as well in a fire.

Of course, if I had a fire in my garage, the structure itself would be the least of my worries.

 

[Bird]

My own shop building is wood framed, aluminum skin, uninsulated (was here when I bought the place), but nearly everything I see being built new in this area is insulated, steel framed (and the way I would also go if I were building a new one).

 

[Timd]

When you say larger spans, are you looking for clear span or cathedral ceilings? You can get clear span with a flat ceiling in a stick framed building by using roof trusses. You can also get an elevated ceiling by using scissors trusses.

For maximum enclosed space for the buck, the winners are probably metal frame kits like . Prices for kits like this are in the 7-8K range. A <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mortonbuildings.com/>Morton building will be at least 3 times that. A slab floor depending on where you are will add another 4-7K.

Metal building advantages: cheap, you can put one up yourself in a couple of weeks (with help), lots of space.

Metal building disadvantages: siding easily damaged, noisy, condensation, hard to insulate well, hard to heat.

I looked at both options and decided to stick build my own.

Timd

 

[hwp]

Have you thought about using pole-barn construction? I have a 30'x40' pole-barn garage. 6x6 posts every six feet. 2x4 rails every two feet vertically. Outside has plywood sheathing, plastic wrap and cedar T&G siding. Inside has vapour barrier and steel siding. 6" batt insulation. The attic also has a vapour barrier and 6" of insulation. The oil furnace for the garage is in the attic. Roof trusses are every six feet spanning the 30 foot dimension. The ceiling is only 10' 6" but that is because the guy that built it didn't think he needed more headroom than that - and he is a mechanic! I intend to build a 25 foot addition and will use cathedral trusses to give me enough headroom to use a twin post hoist and keep the same roof line.

My point is that pole-barn construction is a lot simpler and cheaper than anything else and is every bit a servicable.

 

[Knight9]

Howard,

<font color=blue>My point is that pole-barn construction is a lot simpler and cheaper than anything else and is every bit a servicable. </font color=blue>

I just got a couple of quotes for a garage/workshop structure that I wanted to build. The pole construction was just as costly as the conventional framing option. I was not very happy about that as I presumed I would be able to do it via pole construction for quite a bit less $$$. I'm beginning to believe that there is simply not the expertise in my area in pole construction. Thus the contractors who do it can charge more.

I'm re-evaluating the whole thing right now. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

Kevin