Howdy- we have finshished our pole barn and the contractor framed the inside for a shop and studio for my wife. The shop has an outside 3' man door and is framed for an inside 3' man door. After thinking about it, I'd like to adjust the inside door to a double french door so that it's easier to move bulky items in and out of the shop when needed. I haven't done any real framing in the past but was thinking I could just extend the opening by moving over the king/jack studs and adding a longer header. Two questions: Does any one know the standard opening size for a french double door? and what size header should I put in- it's currently a 2X6 on flat? The ceilings are 12 feet so there will be wall covering (proably osb) above the door. Thanks for any advice.
Basic framing question
- Thread starter anojones
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UpstateNYMarine
Bronze Member
The first thing that I would be worried about is whether or not it is load bearing. If it is be careful as you remove studs. Better to build the opening before you start removing the kingand jack studs that are already there. Is the wall framed with 2x4's or 2x6's. If 2x4's your header should be doubled up 2x6's if i'm not mistaken. I'm not a master framer or anything just done enough work to have a good idea. I'm sure others on here can help out with more detail. Before framing the opening I would simply go buy or measure your proposed door and frame accordingly. When we recently built our house we had a couple options for french doors. And I think the sizes varied a little. I hope this helps.
KYErik
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Call your local hardware store and ask for the rough opening size for the french doors they sell. Typically the rough opening is about 6' 10" high (or a little shorter for some units) and 5' to 5' 2" wide. It will depend on the exact unit you pick out.
If you have OSB nailed to the header, and this is a non load bearing wall (which I asume it is since its inside a pole barn), a 2 X 6 on the flat will be fine - as long as the OSB is also nalied to this header and the OSB is horizontal above the door and spans the whole distance of the door. The OSB will support the weight of the header without a problem. You may even want to stack 2 2X6 on the flat to make that section of the wall a bit more stiff so it won't vibrate as much when the door is closed.
Note- the most common french doors are made for a 2X4 wall and you will need some extra material to extend your door frame trim if you use the 2X6 header(s) on the flat. Don't ask me how I found that out (after buying a standard sized one for my house with 2 X 6 walls).
If you have OSB nailed to the header, and this is a non load bearing wall (which I asume it is since its inside a pole barn), a 2 X 6 on the flat will be fine - as long as the OSB is also nalied to this header and the OSB is horizontal above the door and spans the whole distance of the door. The OSB will support the weight of the header without a problem. You may even want to stack 2 2X6 on the flat to make that section of the wall a bit more stiff so it won't vibrate as much when the door is closed.
Note- the most common french doors are made for a 2X4 wall and you will need some extra material to extend your door frame trim if you use the 2X6 header(s) on the flat. Don't ask me how I found that out (after buying a standard sized one for my house with 2 X 6 walls).
It's not a load bearing wall, just an interior 2X6 wall inside the pole barn. That makes sense to just buy the door and then resize the opening for the purchased door. Since I'll have to remove one of the wall studs, I can probably re-use that to double up the header for good measure. Thanks for the advice on the 2X4 pre-hung door- the door will open into a garage space and that side can be left unfinished, so I'll flush it up on the shop side. Thanks again.
gotcha
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Where I live one cannot do headers over windows or doors on the flat. They have to be 2X6 or larger as load requires. for a 2X4 wall it would have to be 2-2X6's or larger with a 1/2" piece of plywood between them and for a 2X6 wall it has to be built the same except it has to be 3 of the 2X stock and again with 1/2" ply between them and ALL ON EDGE.anojones said:
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Funny, but I'm putting in two french doors next week. One will be six feet wide, the other will be four feet.
Be sure to buy your doors with the frames. Creating your own frame is a headache that's not worth the time or effort. Figure out what sized doors you are putting in and and 2 1/2 inches to your opening. A 36 inch door will have a 38 1/2 inch opening. 48 inch french doors will have a 50 1/2 inch opening and a 72 inch set of french doors will need 74 1/2 inches. You can squeeze it into a smaller opening, especialy if your jack and king studs are perfectly plumb. The more they are out of plumb, the more space you need to square your doors.
Headers should be two 2/6's with a piece of half inch plywood sandwiched between them for openings up to four feet. After four feet, you need to go up to 2x8's for a six foot opening. The bigger the span, the larger the lumber. And like Gotcha said, headers are on the edge. Never flat.
Eddie
Be sure to buy your doors with the frames. Creating your own frame is a headache that's not worth the time or effort. Figure out what sized doors you are putting in and and 2 1/2 inches to your opening. A 36 inch door will have a 38 1/2 inch opening. 48 inch french doors will have a 50 1/2 inch opening and a 72 inch set of french doors will need 74 1/2 inches. You can squeeze it into a smaller opening, especialy if your jack and king studs are perfectly plumb. The more they are out of plumb, the more space you need to square your doors.
Headers should be two 2/6's with a piece of half inch plywood sandwiched between them for openings up to four feet. After four feet, you need to go up to 2x8's for a six foot opening. The bigger the span, the larger the lumber. And like Gotcha said, headers are on the edge. Never flat.
Eddie
KYErik
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Well, I just learned something else I did wrong when framing my house. I only used one 2x4 on the flat as a header when I framed all the interior doors in non load bearing walls in my house. I guess I'll be on the lookout for sagging :-(
I do have a pair of beefy headers on edge above interior doors on load bearing walls and above windows and exterior doors- I guess I did that much correctly
I do have a pair of beefy headers on edge above interior doors on load bearing walls and above windows and exterior doors- I guess I did that much correctly
Looking around, it looks like it's pretty common to have 2 2X4's on flat for a header on non-weight bearing walls (for load bearing the lumber must be on edge and of the correct size for the load). I could easily go to 2 2X6's on flat in the wider door, but I've noticed the other two framed 3' doors have a single 2X6 header as well. Any thoughts on adding header hangers or hardware to add a second header without cutting up the framing? By the way, the pole barn itself has appropriate headers on edge for the windows and doors in the structural parts of the wall, this is just in the interior framing.
Spiveyman
Platinum Member
Howdy anojones, I happen to have just finished replacing a set of french doors. I wish I had taken pic's along the way, but this wasn't planned. We had some punk break in the house while everyone was gone in the middle of the day, completely busted in the door, destroyed both doors and the frame.
Anyway, the opening for the door way was 82 ¾ X 74 ¾, I bought a set at Lowe's, everything they had was exactly 80 X 72, came with the frame. All you have to do is get the whole the right size and pop it in place. It worked out perfectly so that I could simply add a 2X4 on each side, and two at the top. The thing fit like a glove and was even square/plum. I'm not that good, so I figure I just got lucky. I made certain it was solid and added a few more 4 ½ " screws around the frame to at least break the next punk's shoulder if he tries bust through it. The only problem then was covering up the extra wood. I used some 6" trim pieces and made it look real fancy on the inside, used 1X's to fill in gaps on the outside with Si caulk and also used the "Slightly" expandable foam to seal it in good. I don't know if any of that helps, but if you use the foam, get the kind that expands BEFORE it hardens, some of the stuff on the market will mess up the frame. My philosophy on it was make it solid, then cover up the ugly with trim. A real carpenter or someone who's actually "handy" might have a better way to do it. Good luck.
Anyway, the opening for the door way was 82 ¾ X 74 ¾, I bought a set at Lowe's, everything they had was exactly 80 X 72, came with the frame. All you have to do is get the whole the right size and pop it in place. It worked out perfectly so that I could simply add a 2X4 on each side, and two at the top. The thing fit like a glove and was even square/plum. I'm not that good, so I figure I just got lucky. I made certain it was solid and added a few more 4 ½ " screws around the frame to at least break the next punk's shoulder if he tries bust through it.
The only problem then was covering up the extra wood. I used some 6" trim pieces and made it look real fancy on the inside, used 1X's to fill in gaps on the outside with Si caulk and also used the "Slightly" expandable foam to seal it in good. I don't know if any of that helps, but if you use the foam, get the kind that expands BEFORE it hardens, some of the stuff on the market will mess up the frame. My philosophy on it was make it solid, then cover up the ugly with trim. A real carpenter or someone who's actually "handy" might have a better way to do it. Good luck.
hankus
Bronze Member
Exterior people doors on my shop / pole building, were all framed with 2 x 6" on the flat for headers. Having said that, for a french door of 5' plus width, I'd want something a little stiffer, even though bearing load isn't an issue
