Basic framing question

[patrick_g]

My wife and I share the second story of our shop. All doors in the entire house and connected two story shop are 3-0 except one closet door 2-6 and the upstairs shop door. That door is a fraternal twin. One side is a 3-0, normally used, and the other is a 1-0, normally not used. Opened together they give us a 4 ft door opening for ease of moving large things.

It was no difficulty for the door maker to make this in a prehung unit and there was no big price difference (solid core veneered wood doors, plain and flat and we added our own trim to dress them up. We trimmed them such that they look like a pair of 3-0 doors except for the dead giveaway of the handles.

If there is any worry about load bearing use temp studs to carry load prior to reframing for the larger header. Should be a simple job.

Don't settle for little restrictive doors in a shop. If I didn't have an overhead door in the ground floor of the shop I'd have French doors there too.

The door company had no problem supplying the prehung sized for 2x6 studs.

Pat

 

[EddieWalker]

When deciding whether to put in a proper header over a door, window or open area, it really doesn't matter if it's load bearing or not. Do it right and put in the proper header. It's a difference of $5 in material at the most.

Eddie

 

[turnkey4099]

When deciding whether to put in a proper header over a door, window or open area, it really doesn't matter if it's load bearing or not. Do it right and put in the proper header. It's a difference of $5 in material at the most.

Eddie

Yes! Yes! and Yes again. Build it right to start with. Nothing more annoying than having to live with a "shaky" door framing. My standard construction for doors, be it a shop or a house is doubled studs each side, plus 2 doubled jack studs each side. Those doors do not 'shake' when slammed.

I would build that header (non-loadbearing) of 2 2x6 or even 2x8 and work it so it is flush on both sides. One may only plan to finish one side but who knows what comes in the future.

Harry K

 

[GT2]

When deciding whether to put in a proper header over a door, window or open area, it really doesn't matter if it's load bearing or not. Do it right and put in the proper header. It's a difference of $5 in material at the most.

Eddie

Also to mention that these " non bearing rooms" inside garages soon become load bearing when people find the storage space on top quite usefull!

 

[hankus]

We are talking pole buildings here, correct? I don't wish to argue the proper way to frame a doorway in stick frame construction, it has already been correctly documented here. However, in the construction of pole buildings, doorways are typically framed by placing a 4x6 timber in conjunction with one of the structural 6x6 timbers at distance equal to the rough doorway opening requirement. The girts are cut between these timbers. At the top of this opening a new girt is located with its bottom edge at the height of the rough opening, and then a second 2x6 is nailed horizotally between the timbers flush with the bottom edge of the girt.

 

[EddieWalker]

hankus,

I agree that in pole barns, framing principles change. If it was a reguar, 3ft interior doorway, I'd agree with you. I wouldn't do it myself, but there's no problem with that type of header on a three foot span.

Flat lumber isn't going to span much more then three feet. I don't think we've heard what sized french door he plans to install, so my guess that 6 feet might be way off. I know you can get them in four feet openings, but what's the point? If you want a bigger opening, you might as well make it as big as you can!! hahaha

No way would any 2x material last on the flat over a span that wide. It will sag and rest on the door frame. It just doesn't make any sense to do it this way.

Eddie

 

[anojones]

Again, thanks to all for the feedback. I will re-frame the opening for a 6' door, given the advice here I will change the headers to 2X6 on edge. The door in question is not framed between the poles of the barn as it's an inside dividing wall that doesn't line up with the poles. The outside doors are framed as Hankus has shown in the photo but with a 2X6 on edge above the flat 2X6. I have to get this done fairly soon, the electrician will be out in the next couple of weeks.

Edit: I just noticed that the picture from Hankus has the 2X6 on edge as well, same framing for the exterior doors.

 

[schmism]

Flat lumber isn't going to span much more then three feet. I don't think we've heard what sized french door he plans to install, so my guess that 6 feet might be way off.

depends on the 2x. i have span tables for purlins for AG buildings that list 4-6' on some flat orintated 2x (6-8 depends on grade)

The pole barn is likey to have 4-8' OC spaceing trusess. at 8' OC there is likely a post under each truss. meaning the wall carrries no vertical gravity load. It does however support a large horzontal wind load. (post design for AG buildings is often limited by the horzontal load, NOT the gravity load.

If trusses dont sit directly on a post, then there has to be a header at the TOP of the wall to carry the trusses that dont sit directly ontop of a post. That header is designed to carry all gravity loads.

Interior partion walls often have flat single headers, and often dont suffer any sag issues. Commonly though home owners will decide they want to add "storage" load to some truss (or celing joist) that then deflects and starts to transfer load to that interior wall. At that point you may start to see sticky doors.

as for framing your opening, from my perspective there is really no "structurally wrong" way to do it in a AG type pole barn framing. With that said, many of the points indicated (do it right the first time, why skimp on $5 worth of framing) are also good points.

 

[patrick_g]

Flat lumber isn't going to span much more then three feet. I don't think we've heard what sized french door he plans to install, so my guess that 6 feet might be way off. I know you can get them in four feet openings, but what's the point? If you want a bigger opening, you might as well make it as big as you can!! hahaha

No way would any 2x material last on the flat over a span that wide. It will sag and rest on the door frame. It just doesn't make any sense to do it this way.

Eddie

Well, I don't often get a chance to disagree with you Eddie so I didn't want to let this rare opportunity slip away.

I have a 4-0 French door. It is not identical twins but is fraternal twins. One side (the typically used door) is 3-0 and the "fixed" side is 1-0. This door is at the end of our upstairs hall and leads into the second floor of the attached shop (free span metal bld , red iron, I beam columns, horizontal 2x8 on 24 inch centers.) I wanted larger than 3-0 to get stuff into and out of the shop but I also wanted a swinging 3-0 for normal use.

The door handles in this instance are dummies. The doors have the recessed ball bearings on top that engage "striker plates" in the top of the door frame. This facilitates coming up to the doors carrying something and opening either or both doors with your backside as there is no cane bolt or need to twist a handle.

The doors are dead plain veneered solid core onto which I added some trim. I did the trim as if it were identical twins. I didn't use an astragal so uneven sizes are a bit less noticeable but the crack between the doors is a dead giveaway.

Pat

 

[anojones]

"The doors have the recessed ball bearings on top that engage "striker plates" in the top of the door frame. "


I really like this idea and will look for doors with this feature, the way the area is set up it doesn't need a security latch. My plan is an inexpensive door from the local lumberyard, so won't have the option of a custom door maker.