Basic Pole Barn Questions

[buckeye]

I am looking at building a pole barn soon and was wondering, for those who have one, or are considering,

1.) How many sliding or overhead doors did you install? Did you put one on the end, one on each end, or some on the side?

2.) How high did you you make the building? Would you suggest at least 10' or 12'? Did you make the doors the same height?

3.) If you put down gravel at first and then plan to (someday) add concrete, what type of gravel would you put down?

4.) Have you installed skylight panels on the roof? Do they last? Do they get brittle with lots of sunlight? Do you have the skylight panels on the sidewalls? What would be your preference?

5.) Having been in your barn for a while, what do you wish you had installed, but did not?

I know these are general, but hey, I'm just starting in general. If there is already a thread out there, please direct me to it. Thanks.

 

[rancar]

You may want to chat with Spencer on all these good questions. He can likely help you out. See his on-going thread below.

...Bob

Spencer's Pole Barn Project

 

[WVBill]

Hi Buckeye. There are several threads on pole barns here on TBN - just search. I built one about 3 years ago (see attached picture) so here are my thoughts on your questions:

1) Doors: I have a 12' x 12' opening with swinging doors to accomodate my motor home. I considered an overhead door but passed on that due to the $$$$. I considered sliding doors but couldn't figure out how to design them to slide open all the way without interfering with the roof line or the stairs to the door on the left. All of my doors are on one end except for a small passage door on the left side for a second door to the shop. If I did it again, I would strongly consider a second overhead door to the right-hand bay on the back of the barn. I park my truck, lawn tractor and Kubota on that side and having to shuffle out the truck to get at the tractors is a pain - particularly when the job at hand is to plow the snow so the truck can get out. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

2) The main driver for the height of my building was the motor home. It needed at least a 12' opening. Second driver was that I wanted a framed floor up off the ground for the shop area on the left side. This meant that those outside walls needed to be 10'. I could have built the building using the 4/12 pitch of the lower side roofs and made the 12' height for the centre bay easily - but I didn't want the industrial look so I raised the center bay walls to 16' to form the middle roof line.

3) I used crusher run gravel for the floors in the center and right-hand bays. I don't plan to put concrete down but I think crusher run would be a fine base anyway.

4) I don't have skylight panels in the roof but I did take advantage of that 2' gap between the lower roof and the upper roof eave to put in courrigated clear plastic panels as celestory windows. This gives enough light inside to get around but I still need a worklight to do any maintenance. The plastic panels (got them at home depot and cut them into the 2' sections) are surviving just fine - although they're somewhat protected from direct sun and weather by the eaves.

5) I wish I'd installed that back door on the garage side. I wish I had (and plan to now) installed support for an overhead hoist in the garage. I will use it to hoist up the lawn tractor to clean the mower deck, etc.

Just some of my thoughts/experience. Best of luck on your project.

 

[CTyler]

1.) How many sliding or overhead doors did you install? Did you put one on the end, one on each end, or some on the side?

Both overhead doors are 10' wide, one is 8' the other is 11' tall. Both doors are on the long North side of the building. All the wind, rain, snow, dust all blow predominatly from the south and west. This way I don't have it blowing in when the doors are open.

2.) How high did you you make the building? Would you suggest at least 10' or 12'? Did you make the doors the same height?

The eves are 13'. This means the inside hieght to the botom of the truss is 12'. This leaves plenty of room for what I need and for a camper, car a lift etc.. Also lets the heat stay farther away from you in the summer.

3.) If you put down gravel at first and then plan to (someday) add concrete, what type of gravel would you put down?

3/4 crusher run is what I'm putting in and packing. The final grade will be an inch of sand. Also helps protect the 6 mil plastic when walking on it to install the rebar. Makes the final leveling easier as well.

There are pros and cons with that vs using pea gravel sand etc.. From what I've researched it provides more loading capacity. It also packs hard as rock.

4.) Have you installed skylight panels on the roof? Do they last? Do they get brittle with lots of sunlight? Do you have the skylight panels on the sidewalls? What would be your preference?

Don't have any since the building is all insulated. Windows are good, I could add another window.

5.) Having been in your barn for a while, what do you wish you had installed, but did not?

A 12' wide door would have been nicer but it was more $$$ and the 10x11 was pricey enough. They wanted about $900 to install the 10x11 and 10x8, needless to say I did myself.
But after building a rear header and supports for the 10x11 I can see why it was spendy. This was a low headroom install, I.E. pain in the butt. I only had 7 inches between the rail and truss.

Probably could have skipped the 10x8 and made it 11' tall as well but then again more $$$. Or 10' tall and done a normal install vs low headroom.

I will be installing a exaughst fan in the building to suck out summer heat, exaughst fumes and provide a breeze when wanted. Should help with the mexican food as well.

I am still debating on wether to install a thin reflective type insulation/vapor reatrder under the floor vs just plastic. At the very least I will insulate the outside perimeter between the slab and the bottom 2x6 of the building.

You may want to install roughins for water and sewer. Floor heat would be nice if heated to temp all the time. I decided against it since it takes forever to warm up. I'm only going to keep about 40 deg until working in it during the winter. With floor heat I'd need another heat source for a quick temp rise. This equates to more $$$, I may have to start eating rice as it is.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Here in MN we plan for snow & cold. You should get some of that where you are. So:

Most doors away from the predominate wind. Doors on the ends, NOT on the sides. (Dad made that mistake - I spend 3-4 hours chopping ice when we get an ice storm, & the hard snow piles up deep making a foot of ice, sliding doors freeze up, rain drips on me going in & out.)

If this is basic storage, you'll want a vapor barior insulation on the roof. If this is a heated shop, you'll want insulation of course. It is much easier to insulate the roof while building that to retrofit, while the sidewalls can be retrofitted later. Match this info to your plans for the building. Think long & hard before scrimping on roof insulation.

I do not like plastic in the roof. Put it on the sidewalls or endwall.

Overhead doors often require a foot or more of room up above - plan for that on your eve heights. Sliding doors are cheaper & require less overhead, but harder to seal for heat if you make this into a heated workshop.

A walk-in door is sure nice.

I think 90% of the people who built a shed say they want a bigger door & more room in 5 years. Do not build the shed for your present equipment, but for what you plan to own in the next 15-20 years. If you have a camper, will you buy a bigger one next time? If you have a tractor, will you buy a wider implement in a few years?

For ecconomy, you could consider a good utility overhead door, and on the other end a larger, cheaper, more head-room sliding door that you can seal up for winter (a summer door), but gives you secondary access if you find that is important, and allows bigger items to fit in the shed. This gives you 2 doors, but balances the cost & future utility. Bang for the buck & all.

Just some ideas. A lot depends on how you plan to use the shed.

--->Paul

 

[cowboydoc]

Having built more polebarns than I care to remember I'll answer a few questions.

1. You need to figure out first of all what you need to get into the building. My recommendation is to build a MINIMUM of 12' tall and 14' wide doors. Personally I put doors on all sides. A couple of reasons. First you can never have too much access to your barn. You never know when you will need to pull one thing in one door and something else in another door. Secondly put walk-thru doors at least on two ends of the building. Alot of people think if you have a service door you don't need a walk-through door. Well having been there you have to remember unless you have a rollup door your doors are locked from the inside. Therefore you have to walk all the way around to get in. Second I would do overhead doors. They are more expensive in the beginning but man what a time and hassle saver they are. I don't think I would ever put in another slider after going to overhead doors.

2. I used to build with the idea in mind of the least I could get by with. Now in my older age I build with the idea of what is the biggest baddest thing I need or can even imagine doing in or getting into the building. With this in mind I wouldn't build anything less than 14' tall with 16' being ideal. Believe me you will long forget about the extra cost over the hassle of having to change things down the road because you built what you could get by with.

3. I would just use 1-2" gravel. This is small enough that it makes a nice surface and is fine if you decide to pour concrete over it later.

4. Don't use skylights. They crack, break and leak. Use the light panels 2' on all sides of the building. Unless it's pitch black you will never need lights.

5. In all the barns that I've built I always built too small. I would also go with the best lumbar and tin you can find. Saving a couple thousand there doesn't mean much in the long run when you're out repairing things when you should be using the building. All materials are not alike for sure.

I would also have running water and a bathroom. I did do this to my last barn and it has been a blessed thing. Put in plenty of power service and do it right. Don't cobble it up or run it off of your house. Put it's own service panel in. If you ever want to add a welder or anything that pulls alot of juice you will kick yourself to have to go back and redo it.

The other thing I would make sure and do is put in roof insulation. Condensation is terrible in polebarns.

The best advice I can give you is to go and look around at the building that are close to what you want. See how people have done different things. Get alot of ideas and then draw up your barn and don't scrimp on it but build it to be the barn you want instead of what you can get by with.

 

[CTyler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Put in plenty of power service and do it right. Don't cobble it up or run it off of your house. )</font>

I wouldn't say that neccesarily. As long as you have enough service into the house to begin with. I have been discussing this very thing with my electrican since I'm building a house.
The shop is there and temp power is installed. The shop will run off the meter at the house with a seperate sub panel. This allows the kilowatts used in the shop to apply toward your volume usage discount tiers at the house. This also avoids, at least in my area, a large cost of installing power to the shop seperately.

If your refering to running the shop off a breaker in the house panel, thats a different story.

 

[cowboydoc]

All depends on how much service you have going into your house. I would love to have mine combined. Problem is I need to run a welder, air compressor, lights, etc. all at the same time. Most house boxes are only 200. That isn't enough to draw a 100 or more to a shop and at the same time have your heat or ac, and everything in your house running. Even if you run a subpanel if you will likely run out of useable amps and start tripping breakers.

Since I didn't know what this guy has in mind I prepare for the worst and hope for the best. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif But seriously if you run a 220 welder and a big compressor you need a separate service. No I hate paying the extra $11 per month and the higher wattage but at least I know I'm not going to burn up an expensive tool or my welder from having too little power getting to them or the appliances in my house.

As far as cost goes it's not that much more to run the wires from the pole. Most utility companies will even run it right to the meter for you. In our area that is what they do. They are responsible for everything to the meter, that's the $11 surcharge every month, and I am responsible for everything from there on.

And he asked what I would do different. Well that is one thing I would do different. I'm not limited in my house and I'm not limited in my barn now. At my previous house I had a 100 amp subpanel for my barns. If I wanted to run the welder I had to turn everything else off. Now at the new place I can run and add anything without any worries. I have a 200 subpanel in my barn and I use 150 of that. If I was at my other house I would have to worry about turning things off which I can tell you is a pain.

 

[Bird]

I'm with your on this, Richard. I had 200 amp service to the house and a separate meter for the shop and barn, although I only had 100 amp service for the second meter. I wasn't running nearly as much stuff as you are, so that was always adequate. But the cost for that extra meter was $15 plus the wattage in my area. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Buckeye, I'm building a stick-built barn so I have no comparisons to a pole barn, but you might be interested in the doors. They are bi-fold, which you can build yourself, and take up minimum room when open, yet seal pretty good. The designer, barnplans.com, sells the bifold door plans by themselves for $25. Click on "Orders" and scroll down.

Closed:

Open:

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color="blue"> Don't use skylights. They crack, break and leak. Use the light panels 2' on all sides of the building. Unless it's pitch black you will never need lights. </font>

I would have to say this depends...

I put some "skylights" in a little shed I built several years ago. They make a big difference! Skylights seem to let a lot more light in than a side window does.

Back to the question though. I used 1/4 inch acrylic sheets, 2x4 foot in size. Shingled up and around the openings between the rafters, then layed the sheets on top of a bead of silicone rubber that I put on top of the shingles around the opening.

I pre drilled the plastic sheets and attached them to the roof with screws that had rubber washers. Similar to what is used for corregated plastic sheeting.

Then I ran the remaining corse of shingles over the top end, also putting ample silicone rubber calking there. Have had no problems or leaks at all, and I will be doing the same kind of installation in the new shed I am building.

These 2x4x025 inch sheets of clear acrylic plastic are sold by home depot for about $27 each. If you want a bullet proof skylight get some lexan for about $50 each. In either case, I don't expect you will have any problem whatsoever with cracking or splitting if you use this method and acrylic or lexan 1/4 inch thick.

Cheap plastic yes, I agree with Cowboydoc, stay away from it...

I'm about to rip off that roof with the skylights [this morning, shed is growing into a new home for my Kubota B22910] and if I remember I will take a pic and post it here. They are dirty from years of no washing, but still leave in a lot of light...

Have fun in planning and executing your project!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

4. Don't use skylights. They crack, break and leak. Use the light panels 2' on all sides of the building. Unless it's pitch black you will never need lights.

<font color="blue"> </font> Richard, Do you have your barn wrapped with the light panels? I'm looking at ideas on building a pole barn and have noticed a few in my area with the light panels wrapping hte building just under the eaves. You stated you have the roof insulated how about the walls, do you think you lose much of the R value with the light panels? Thanks

 

[CTyler]

fyi...The planned service coming in to the house is 320. I'll be darned if I can't remember what we are running to the shop, but its over 100....120 or 150??

 

[cowboydoc]

In some of my barns I do have them. I did them just under the eaves. If you ever need to replace one it takes about 5 minutes. Just be sure and use screws. If you are going to use eavelights you can't use insulation on the walls. My polebarn shop I have it fully insulated with no light panels. In my barn for the horses and my indoor arena I only have the ceiling insulated. It's too big to heat /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

 

[buckeye]

Thanks to everyone for their responses! I really appreciate all the great information. I have been on business travel away from a computer for the last couple of days. The insights are, as usual for TBN, great.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

As threatened, here is a picture of one of those skylights I mentioned.

Dirty...I know, but still let a lot of light in.

Picture from my "I feel like Spencer Jr." thread.

I plan on wrapping the walls inder the roof of the little pole building I am building with that clear corregated plastic stuff. But I am also going to install some skylights. Now that I have a good portion of the roof on I can see what the light level is going to be...satisfactory, but I guess I like bright spaces.

If anyone does use a skylight like in the picture, remember where the plastic ends. I hit one of mine with roofing nails at the top and cracked it under the shingles. Never leaked, but still better to keep that plastic intact!