rekees4300
Elite Member
That would be the better choice. Also get 4-wheel drive, that makes a tremendous difference in what a tractor can do.
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That would be the better choice. Also get 4-wheel drive, that makes a tremendous difference in what a tractor can do.
Bird
Rest in Peace
I think you're on the right track. I've USED tractors with the different transmissions and some were very good for what they were being used for, but I've OWNED two Kubotas with the HST transmissions.
jeff9366
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- Tractor
- Kubota Tractor Loader L3560 HST+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3,700 pounds bare tractor, 5,400 pounds operating weight, 37 horsepower
To operate a six foot wide Rotary Cutter in 48" long grass, Bush Hog being a well know trademark, you need a tractor with at least 45-horsepower gross.
I recommend these options: HST, 4-WD, Front End Loader, R4/industrial tires and a Ratchet Rake bucket attachment.
Last edited:
WM75Guy
Elite Member
Welcome to TBN :welcome: You were probably doing it OK, each manufacturer may operate a little different. With my NH HST the forward and reverse pedals do not raise engine RPMs. You set the engine RPMs with the hand throttle, the more RPMs the faster you go when you push the pedal to go forwards or reverse. I usually run mine up to 2000 RPMs and then select a speed range, normally low range for most work. I only use high range out on the paved roads. I also have a rabbit/turtle selection switch on the joystick and right fender so mine has 4 speed ranges.
With the CVT transmission on the Boomer 8N the pedal will raise RPMs if the hand throttle is at idle but it is not smooth. It is more responsive if I run it up to 2000 RPMs so that is what I do. The pedal then works just like the accelerator pedal in a car. The shuttle shift is used to change from neutral to either forwards or reverse while stopped.
For a geared tractor I start off in the gear I want based on the speed I need letting out the clutch to start rolling. Some shuttle shifts require you to use the clutch to change direction and some don't. Each manufacturer may call their clutchless shuttle shift something different and it costs more money. If you are doing a lot of loader work it is worth the money if you buy a geared tractor or get the HST and it is not an issue.
Also the more PTO HP the better in a CUT. Going from 33 PTO HP on my TC40DA to 40 PTO HP on the Boomer 8N is a 20% increase. You can tell the difference when using the cutter. For both of my tractors PTO speed is about 2400 RPMs. I usually run it up to 2500 RPMs sitting still and it drops down a little as I start moving. It is amazing what a drop of a few hundred RPMs means in cutter work.
With the CVT transmission on the Boomer 8N the pedal will raise RPMs if the hand throttle is at idle but it is not smooth. It is more responsive if I run it up to 2000 RPMs so that is what I do. The pedal then works just like the accelerator pedal in a car. The shuttle shift is used to change from neutral to either forwards or reverse while stopped.
For a geared tractor I start off in the gear I want based on the speed I need letting out the clutch to start rolling. Some shuttle shifts require you to use the clutch to change direction and some don't. Each manufacturer may call their clutchless shuttle shift something different and it costs more money. If you are doing a lot of loader work it is worth the money if you buy a geared tractor or get the HST and it is not an issue.
Also the more PTO HP the better in a CUT. Going from 33 PTO HP on my TC40DA to 40 PTO HP on the Boomer 8N is a 20% increase. You can tell the difference when using the cutter. For both of my tractors PTO speed is about 2400 RPMs. I usually run it up to 2500 RPMs sitting still and it drops down a little as I start moving. It is amazing what a drop of a few hundred RPMs means in cutter work.
With some equipment having hydrostatic drive, you do need to get the engine revved up in order to get good response from the drivetrain. That's because the drive system is driven by a hydraulic pump that needs to have enough speed to move enough fluid to make everything work. So if you're putt-putting around with the engine idled back, everything is going to be pretty sluggish. Some tractors are famous (or notorious), for those characteristics, notably the little Kubota BX series, but to some measure, that's just part of the way the hydrostatic drive setup works... the faster you have the engine running, the more hydraulic flow there will be.
I've had a BX tractor for many years and getting the engine up to proper rpm's never bothered me, but some folks don't seem to like doing that. I figure a diesel engine works best and has less wear when it's working hard with the engine is in its recommended rpm range. But then one of the first cars I ever drove was a 1950 Buick with dynaflow, and on cold days you had to really get on the gas to even get the thing to move, so maybe that's what I'm used to! :laughing:
TractorGuy
Elite Member
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- N. FL
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- John Deere 4310 CUT, Ford New Holland 575E Industrial Backhoe, John Deere F725 Front Mount Mower
HST really shines when doing work requiring direction changes. My hydro works equally well for mowing due to having cruise control. Should move at any throttle speed.
Shuttle or geared may work better for long forward drives. Especially plowing. Should start in the gear needed for the task.
Shuttle or geared may work better for long forward drives. Especially plowing. Should start in the gear needed for the task.
CenCalLS
Member
What you described sounds like what my HST does if it is in the high range without the rpm's up. In both low and mid range I have great "pedal" control and I do a lot of grading and FEL work. I've gotten used to running at higher rpms, but from what I have read it is better for modern diesels anyways. With your mowing needs I would suggest getting a tractor that has cruise control. I use it when I'm spraying and it makes a world of difference.
Happy shopping!!
Happy shopping!!
CalG
Super Member
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- Sep 29, 2011
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- vermont
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- Hurlimann 435, Fordson E27n, Bolens HT-23, Kubota B7200, Kubota B2601
Don't think of a diesel tractor engine in the way would consider an automobile engine.
They work best at full rated rpm and output. It's your job to match the need to the supply.
With that, A hydrostatic transmission wants full RPMs from the engine to meet anticipated loads. Roll back the pedal if the engine labors! Mechanical advantage and all. even if the mechanics are hydraulic!
As to the shuttle shift, take off at the gear that you want to operate at. The engine will pull up to speed at any ratio IF the load is not to much. If pulling a load or climbing, a lower gear should be selected. Bottom line, no "shifting up a gear" should be required. But... the Hurlimann 435 provides synchronized shifting through the four speed box. NO synchros in the three speed range selector though, ;-) Check the literature regarding the same features for the tractors you are considering.
They work best at full rated rpm and output. It's your job to match the need to the supply.
With that, A hydrostatic transmission wants full RPMs from the engine to meet anticipated loads. Roll back the pedal if the engine labors! Mechanical advantage and all. even if the mechanics are hydraulic!
As to the shuttle shift, take off at the gear that you want to operate at. The engine will pull up to speed at any ratio IF the load is not to much. If pulling a load or climbing, a lower gear should be selected. Bottom line, no "shifting up a gear" should be required. But... the Hurlimann 435 provides synchronized shifting through the four speed box. NO synchros in the three speed range selector though, ;-) Check the literature regarding the same features for the tractors you are considering.
fishheadbob
Platinum Member
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- Aug 5, 2014
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- western ny
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- New holland boomer 40 NH 3930 Deere 2320
I own a shuttle shift and a hydro tractor; each is good in its' own way. After a little time on the shuttle tractor shifting from forward to reverse when doing loader work becomes an automatic, thought free procedure. I use the hydro tractor for mowing and spraying and have no issues with it either. While my shuttle transmission is synchronized I find no need to shift on the fly.
The gear tractor has a foot pedal like the gas pedal on your car; I have probably never used it preferring to set rpms with the dash lever and leave it there. If more power is called for bump up the lever. With the hydro transmission it's a similar thing. I set the rpms with the dash lever and adjust speed with the foot pedals
Happy shopping.
The gear tractor has a foot pedal like the gas pedal on your car; I have probably never used it preferring to set rpms with the dash lever and leave it there. If more power is called for bump up the lever. With the hydro transmission it's a similar thing. I set the rpms with the dash lever and adjust speed with the foot pedals
Happy shopping.
rScotty
Super Member
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- Rural mountains - Colorado
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- Kubota M59, JD530, JD310SG. Restoring Yanmar YM165D
Most of the opinions and explanations seem to echo my own experience, although I do tend to run my own tractors at a lower RPM - often hardly above an idle. Maybe that's partly because I don't like all the extra noise of high RPM....and partly because that is fast enough both to do the work and to enjoy doing it.
I prefer HST, and agree that there was something wrong with the one you originally tried. I guess you realize that by now. Maybe it was adjusted wrong at the factory, or the brake was on, or possibly - even probably - it was simply that the wrong speed range was selected and so you were trying to start out with the tractor in the highest gear. Try selecting a lower gear. It should be capable of moving off with good power at anything idle or above.
That said, the higher the RPM, the more ultimate power the HST will have.
And by the way, not all HSTs work the same way.
First of all, not all brands have the same sort of HST foot pedal. Some have a "single rocker" foot pedal so that you press the front to go forward and the back down to go in reverse. Other brands have separate side by side foot pedals....one pedal for forward and the other for reverse. Which you choose is simply a matter of preference. They work just the same, and you will soon get used to whichever type you pick.
Speed range is a little more important. For example most HSTs have a shift lever to allow you to select the speed range you plan to be working in, but the total number of ranges offerered will vary model to model from one to six or more. Theoretically, all a HST would need would be one forward and one reverse speed, but practically it doesn't work that way. Most larger tractors have at least three HST ranges. and will often have an "on the go" finger switch for high and low in each speed - for a total of six different speed ranges. For a tractor capable of working 30+ acres like you are anticipating, you will want at least three ranges and more than that is better. In all types of tractor transmissions the top range is for traveling, all the lower ranges are for working.
HSTs are typically coupled to the engine in a torque-sensitive fashion so that as you push on the HST to change the speed.... or if the tractor encounters a load.... then the the engine RPM will automatically rise and fall to meet whatever the work demands. This type of HST is referred to as being "auto-throttle" and will also automatically return to idle when the HST is in the neutral position or when you lift your foot from the HST pedal. If I were in your position I would most definitely want the auto-throttle option.
By comparison, very early models of HST required you to set the operating RPM with a hand throttle and then vary the ground speed with the position of the HST pedal. Some people got to prefer that constant full throttle operation, and it isn't uncommon for the automatic load sensing HSTs to have a switch that will turn off the automatic function and return the tractor to a more manual HST. Mine has that switch and I do use the manual setting sometimes on very cold mornings when I don't want the engine to rev up to much until it is fully warm.
And there is a teaching advantage too. When learning how to operate a HST machine there is no better way to teach yourself about HST than to try out a tractor with HST and auto-throttle, and then turn the auto-throttle off and operate it for a while that way. Do that, and the relationship between HST, throttle, and ranges become much easier and instinctive to understand.
HST really shines when changing speeds and loads a lot. You change speeds and load a lot when doing loader work or chores or doing dirt landscaping. Shuttle shift is preferable when you are at a constant speed for longer times like when plowing or seeding 10 acre or larger field with long rows. Mowing is sort of an in-between operation and there you chose one or the other to suit yourself.
But both types of transmission will work. In fact, in the last 50 years I've had about equal numbers of gear shifting tractors and power shifting tractors. I've only had a couple of HST machines. Our land is less than 20 acres and rugged. Rocks are common and snow is a factor too. I much prefer the HST. If I was farming crops on flatter land I'd go for shuttle or just straight gears.
My recommendation: buy as nice a tractor as you can possibly afford. Get one with every feature you can dream of and get the next larger size than you think you need. This is going to be your mechanical farm hand and will be used more than you can possibly foresee. It doesn't have to bee new. After all, when a tool is expected to last 20 or 30 years, there can't be much wrong with buying one with 5 years on it. There is nothing wrong with good used low hour tractors - choose a dealer and let him guide you there. BTW, tractors years start when they are sold, not by year of manufacture like autos.
Finally, a tractor is only as good as the implements it works, but luckily you will find that used implements work just as good as new ones, and cost far less. You want a loader, good 3pt, and accessory hydraulic outlets. For implements past that point I recommend you rent them first.
good luck,
rScotty
I prefer HST, and agree that there was something wrong with the one you originally tried. I guess you realize that by now. Maybe it was adjusted wrong at the factory, or the brake was on, or possibly - even probably - it was simply that the wrong speed range was selected and so you were trying to start out with the tractor in the highest gear. Try selecting a lower gear. It should be capable of moving off with good power at anything idle or above.
That said, the higher the RPM, the more ultimate power the HST will have.
And by the way, not all HSTs work the same way.
First of all, not all brands have the same sort of HST foot pedal. Some have a "single rocker" foot pedal so that you press the front to go forward and the back down to go in reverse. Other brands have separate side by side foot pedals....one pedal for forward and the other for reverse. Which you choose is simply a matter of preference. They work just the same, and you will soon get used to whichever type you pick.
Speed range is a little more important. For example most HSTs have a shift lever to allow you to select the speed range you plan to be working in, but the total number of ranges offerered will vary model to model from one to six or more. Theoretically, all a HST would need would be one forward and one reverse speed, but practically it doesn't work that way. Most larger tractors have at least three HST ranges. and will often have an "on the go" finger switch for high and low in each speed - for a total of six different speed ranges. For a tractor capable of working 30+ acres like you are anticipating, you will want at least three ranges and more than that is better. In all types of tractor transmissions the top range is for traveling, all the lower ranges are for working.
HSTs are typically coupled to the engine in a torque-sensitive fashion so that as you push on the HST to change the speed.... or if the tractor encounters a load.... then the the engine RPM will automatically rise and fall to meet whatever the work demands. This type of HST is referred to as being "auto-throttle" and will also automatically return to idle when the HST is in the neutral position or when you lift your foot from the HST pedal. If I were in your position I would most definitely want the auto-throttle option.
By comparison, very early models of HST required you to set the operating RPM with a hand throttle and then vary the ground speed with the position of the HST pedal. Some people got to prefer that constant full throttle operation, and it isn't uncommon for the automatic load sensing HSTs to have a switch that will turn off the automatic function and return the tractor to a more manual HST. Mine has that switch and I do use the manual setting sometimes on very cold mornings when I don't want the engine to rev up to much until it is fully warm.
And there is a teaching advantage too. When learning how to operate a HST machine there is no better way to teach yourself about HST than to try out a tractor with HST and auto-throttle, and then turn the auto-throttle off and operate it for a while that way. Do that, and the relationship between HST, throttle, and ranges become much easier and instinctive to understand.
HST really shines when changing speeds and loads a lot. You change speeds and load a lot when doing loader work or chores or doing dirt landscaping. Shuttle shift is preferable when you are at a constant speed for longer times like when plowing or seeding 10 acre or larger field with long rows. Mowing is sort of an in-between operation and there you chose one or the other to suit yourself.
But both types of transmission will work. In fact, in the last 50 years I've had about equal numbers of gear shifting tractors and power shifting tractors. I've only had a couple of HST machines. Our land is less than 20 acres and rugged. Rocks are common and snow is a factor too. I much prefer the HST. If I was farming crops on flatter land I'd go for shuttle or just straight gears.
My recommendation: buy as nice a tractor as you can possibly afford. Get one with every feature you can dream of and get the next larger size than you think you need. This is going to be your mechanical farm hand and will be used more than you can possibly foresee. It doesn't have to bee new. After all, when a tool is expected to last 20 or 30 years, there can't be much wrong with buying one with 5 years on it. There is nothing wrong with good used low hour tractors - choose a dealer and let him guide you there. BTW, tractors years start when they are sold, not by year of manufacture like autos.
Finally, a tractor is only as good as the implements it works, but luckily you will find that used implements work just as good as new ones, and cost far less. You want a loader, good 3pt, and accessory hydraulic outlets. For implements past that point I recommend you rent them first.
good luck,
rScotty
